Preparing Your Law School Application Materials

Anna Donovan: Welcome to the first episode of Applying Yourself, our law school admissions podcast, hosted by two staff members from Washington University School of Law in St. Louis. My name is Anna Donovan. I’m the communications program manager in the admissions office, and I’ve been working here for 14 years.

Naomi Stewart: My name is Naomi Stewart. I am a director of admissions in the JD admissions office, and I have been working in the law school for eight years. 

Anna Donovan: Rock on. Naomi, would you say we’re like pretty experts in all things law school admissions?

Naomi Stewart: So here’s the thing that can make you expert sometimes: seeing a lot of stuff.

Anna Donovan: Seeing a lot of stuff, but neither of us have gone to law school.

Naomi Stewart: No, no, we have not.

Anna Donovan: And I think it’s totally fine.

Naomi Stewart: Oh, it is totally fine. It’s great.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. We still have tons of information to give to hopefully our billions of listeners out in the world who all want to go to law school and all, you know, probably want to apply to WashU Law.

Naomi Stewart: Oh, definitely.

Anna Donovan: Excellent. It would be a mistake not to.

Naomi Stewart: Trust us, it would be a mistake.

Anna Donovan: Trust us, we are experts. Don’t make that mistake. Our first episode, we are going to go over choosing where to apply to law school. That is a really good kind of first step. I mean, the first step is you’ve decided you want to go to law school, so now you’re going to start here figuring out where you want to apply. And we’ve come up with a few criteria, six to be exact, to go over of what we think you should be looking at when you’re making your list.

Naomi Stewart: Yes, and we’ll jump right in. And the first one of these is location. 

Anna Donovan: Location, location, location. 

Naomi Stewart: This is where, yes, and think about it in a lot of different ways. And so this is where the law school is located, where you would potentially be going and learning for three years. And so think about this maybe in ways that you maybe different factors from how you chose your undergrad. 

Anna Donovan: Maybe you put in no thought when you went to undergrad. Put some thought here into where you’re choosing to go to law school. 

Naomi Stewart: I mean, I think that’s probably fair for a surprising amount of people, or the thought was only on location for undergrad.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. 

Naomi Stewart: I mean, that’s something that we run into quite often.

Anna Donovan: For sure. This is where I jump in and just do a little plug about how great St. Louis is. For anyone who doesn’t know, WashU Law is located in St. Louis, Missouri. I am a lifelong St. Louisan. I probably will never leave. I think it’s the greatest city on the planet, but you know that deep love because we have so much to offer, you know, in that part of my job where I get to convince students that they’re going to love living here for three years. That’s something you wanna look for, you know, in location of your future law school.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. And I have a similar perspective to Anna, but I am originally from San Diego, California, and now I’m a lifetime St. Louisan. And one of the things to really think about in location is, like, for example, St. Louis is a very blue city in a very red state. There is a lot going on here, which I’m sure we’ve all seen in the news and everyone can have, you know, their own opinion, their own sort of take on these things. But all these things that are going on are going on through the St. Louis courts, through the Missouri Supreme Court. It’s just a very active city with so many different opinions and viewpoints, and that is certainly represented at WashU. And it is a great community to be a part of and to really get involved and get great experience. So in addition to the food scene being amazing in St. Louis, I also really appreciate all that goes on in terms of, you know, work and life and law and all of these things.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we really value the fact that you are not from here. And so when we talk to our students that come from all over the country and all over the world, you know, you have that perspective of someone who moved here from outside of Missouri. Something that is super huge, you know, and maybe isn’t always at the forefront of everyone’s mind, is the cost of law school. You know, that you’ve decided you want to do this three-year program. It’s intensive. It’s this big thing and it’s going to, you know, mean big things for your future. But how much does law school actually cost? What is tuition? What is cost of living in that city you might be moving to? What are other fees? What are, you know, what? We’ll talk about scholarships, but you know, it’s a lot. It’s a big endeavor, you know, it’s academically rigorous, but also can, you know, mean debt for students and your investment in your own future.

Naomi Stewart: Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, the total cost to attend is something to look at. So not just the tuition, but as Anna mentioned, cost of living and then also really, you know, bringing you back to location, looking at the lifestyle you can have that really can provide balance in where you’re looking at going to law school and finding ways to cover these costs. So looking at scholarships, that’s our next thing. Is it scholarships that are provided through the school? Is it outside scholarships? And then also non-monetary things of value, whether it’s mentorships, research assistantships. There’s so many different ways to get a lot of value from law school that are not necessarily monetary, but can really be part of the picture. So looking at scholarship is not just the initial award from your school, but as a really big picture.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. And I think one way that you can start digging into if you’re making a list of schools you’re interested in applying to and looking at scholarship is looking at ABA required disclosures. These are something that every law school has to put on their law school website, and those are both going to house a metrical data about scholarships that the schools have given out to their current students at that school, and also are going to cover placement information, post-grad placement, and that is also one way that you can think about how you’re going to pay back any loans that you’ve taken out for law school. Most students do take out some type of loans. It could be federal loans, it could be private loans, and looking at that data of where schools are placing students, making sure they’re getting you where you wanna go, but also what type of the amount of scholarships they’re giving out and how that can fill in kind of the overall picture for you.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely, and placement is such a big part of the whole reason you’re going to law school is to practice law or to have that expertise in some other field you want to go into. And so really doing your research around the types of jobs students get after attending said law school, how the school prepares them for those jobs, the reputation that the school has, you know, maybe within courts and with law firms or with non-governmental organizations. When you think about your path after law school, there are so many different approaches to have the same or similar result. The result you want can be achieved. Law school is the first step in many, many paths to achieving that. So how does your school that you’re looking at approach the whole placement, you know, what are their organizing principles around this? And do they match up with yours? And can they help you, you know, meet those goals and develop those goals for yourself too? Because really, law school is exploratory as well. You do not have to go in knowing where you want to practice, what you want to practice. A lot of that will be discovered in law school, which really brings us to the next thing that is super important. And that is like the community and culture of your law school.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. Naomi touched on this a little bit in looking into the support that you are going to receive, certainly through the career center and how they’re going to get you where you want to go and help you pivot and change your mind on different things and get you to a clerkship and maybe provide support even after you’ve graduated and what that, you know, alum base looks like as well. And the community itself isn’t, you know, is certainly your academics and your time in school and that support of you’re in law school to get a great job and looking at summer placement and post-grad. But also you really want to look at, you know, your life, yourself. You want to think about yourself and how you can attempt to strike a balance. I don’t know if there’s ever really a balance in law school into doing the best you can in academics and thinking about the longevity of your career while also having a nice life and doing fun things and making sure the school is putting resources into getting you experiences or connecting you to students that have, you know, similar interests and student organizations and all the free time you have, free time in law school, for you to have a really nice life for those three years.

Naomi Stewart: It is incredibly important, just because of the expense of, you know, both money and time that law school is and the point in people’s lives where they’re, you know, pursuing a graduate degree, you deserve to and really should get every bit of value out of your law school degree. So it is a valid question of what is the faculty culture like? What is the teaching philosophy? Is it more, you know, legal theory and how does the school approach teaching how to practice law? That is something that is incredibly important in the placements stages. Okay, so you learned the theory. Can you do the thing? That is important. 

Anna Donovan: And can the school provide you the opportunity to be able to put those skills into practice, into motion, and be really set up for success when you graduate? Absolutely. 

You know, and tying back to the first thing you talked about, location, what does that city have to offer for you to have an outlet for health, for mental health, for doing the activities that you currently like to do and be able to continue them? That’s part of the community as well. And I think really over my years working here, I think one of the biggest takeaways that people don’t necessarily think about when they’re kind of starting this process for law school is the takeaway from law school, besides a really great job that you’re excited about, is this community of people, this alumni network, these professional colleagues and connections that you are going to have for the rest of your life. That is it, and making sure, you know, ultimately, these six things we’re talking about is helping you find the school that’s the right fit for you so you have the best experience in law school and the best outcome for you outside of law school. 

Naomi, I’d like to talk about probably like the elephant in the room, which is medians and rankings.

Naomi Stewart: The question we get all day every day.

Anna Donovan: We would be a little remiss if we did not touch on these, you know, anyone who’s listening, probably waiting till we get to this point. Every law school out there reports their medians, which are the 50th percentile, typically they’re reporting LSAT and undergraduate cumulative GPA. Some schools take the GRE. That’s a whole other can of worms. But, you know, the combination of that and U.S. News and World Report rankings are some things that really applicants are looking very closely at in the determination of where they want to go to law school.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. And some of this is because the feeling is, oh, the ranking gives me a snapshot of all these other things we’ve talked about. It gives me a snapshot of the teaching. It gives me a snapshot of placement, all of those things. But with 200 plus law schools, it’s really, you will do yourself a service to really look further than just the ranking into each law school because really the success point for you is going to be what you put into and are willing to get out of your degree. It’s not gonna be just the law school itself. So this is a you thing, so look at each school to see if, you know, obviously not every single school, but kind of put your metrics together. Look at those 509 reports and do your research and call schools. Talk with someone to really get a better idea of what that particular school is like. Because ranking is an overall snapshot, just as medians are just this one piece of the puzzle. And as Anna mentioned, it’s a 50th percentile mark. And so also look at the school’s 25th percentile to 70th percentile. 

Anna Donovan: And absolutely also constantly remind yourself when you were looking at medians that, you know, maybe it’s a reach for you if you’ve already taken the LSAT or maybe your GPA wasn’t as strong in undergrad as you had hoped, but you did really well in your master’s program. Twenty-five percent of that class is below the medians. That’s a significant chunk.

Naomi Stewart: Yeah. Below that 25th percentile mark, and I mean like at or below, we don’t know how every school does it. Maybe that 25th percentile is like their, I don’t know. But it’s, you can really, you know, sort of assume that it’s around or below that 25th percentile and then the 75th, it’s around or above that. So look at the whole picture. And this does bring us to something that is important in this whole deciding factor is do not count yourself out. So when you’re researching law schools, don’t look and be like, oh, well, I can’t get in there because. So you are a unique candidate and law schools, you know, want to get to know you. I know that’s the philosophy at WashU. We really want to get to know you as an applicant. But as far as, you know, having a lower undergrad GPA or, you know, maybe not being a strong test taker, this is something that it’s not uncommon. Certainly. We see it all the time and what we want to know and what law schools really wanna know is what makes you unique for this law school journey, how have you been thoughtful about it? And how can that school help you on that law school journey? That’s what they’re trying to determine.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. Yes, it works both ways. If you can drown out the noise of rankings and importance and prestige, and really think about your goals and your interests and what they may be right now, maybe they’re going to change. You know, and definitely if you can apply to reach schools and have the funds to do so, you know, do it. We, and we hope every other law school out there, wants to build the best class possible each application cycle. And that doesn’t just mean LSAT and GPA and this kind of straight line across things. So we talked about a lot of different things. It’s, you know, that’s a personal choice, deciding to go to law school, choosing where to go, and we’ve outlined a few things, but always, you know, please do use admissions offices as the resource that they are. If you have more questions, we are always available. Please let us know if you need help, you know, seeking out that data, those 509 reports or have questions, you know, and I think that applies to every law school out there. Please do, you know, do your own research, but certainly reach out to those schools to really give yourself the most, you know, kind of research into these areas to help you, you know, choose where you want to apply to law school.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. And do think of the application process as separate from choosing where to go, because you can only choose from the pool of schools that you’ve gotten into, and every application cycle truly is different. And you will hear that throughout the application cycle for many law schools. The reason for that is it is true. We as law schools wish we had a crystal ball. We wish we could tell you predictive information. We absolutely cannot because we don’t have it. So we’re not going to lie to you. But yeah, really think of applying. It’s different from choosing where to go, because, like I said, you can only choose from where you’ve gotten in.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. This is the start of your journey. We hope to have some episodes out every two weeks or so on different topics kind of taking you through the application cycle timeline. You know, right now, we’re almost at August and, you know, kicking off September 1 for our application cycle, you know, and around that timeline for probably a lot of schools. So we will keep rolling out more information to kind of help you as the cycle goes on. So thank you.

Naomi Stewart: Yes, thank you for joining us.