Bar Prep at WashULaw

Anna Donovan: Hi, and welcome to Applying Yourself, a law school admissions podcast from Washington University School of Law in St. Louis. I am Anna Donovan, one of the hosts. I’m the Director of Operations and Admissions Communications, and today we are talking with Margaret Samadi. She is the Assistant Director of the Career Center and Bar Success. We are going to talk a little bit today about how WashU Law prepares students for the bar — and, in general, Margaret’s whole role.

Margaret, welcome to our podcast.

Margaret Samadi: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Anna Donovan: Fabulous. So, jumping right in — tell us a little bit about your role at WashU and your background.

Margaret Samadi: Great. Well, thanks for having me, Anna. I’m excited about my new role at WashU Law. I’m the Assistant Director of Career Center and Bar Success, and I’m also a professor of Civil Pretrial. The past approximately four months, I’ve been focused on preparing WashU Law’s 2024 graduates to take the bar exam in many states. I think, last we counted, it was about 35 different states that our graduates were taking the bar in July. But now that the bar is complete for July, we’re focusing on creating strategies and setting up meetings for WashU Law students who intend to take the bar in 2025 and 2026, and even 2027. It’s never too early to create a success plan for something like the bar.

Anna Donovan: Awesome. So, as you mentioned, the bar just happened. It was about a week and a half ago. First time in this role you’ve helped students through it. Do you think it went well for them?

Margaret Samadi: It did just happen, and I know we have a lot of recovering studiers right now. The few months leading up to the bar can be really grueling, so hopefully they’re all getting some rest right now. I’m feeling really hopeful about this class from WashU Law. The ones that I worked with — I saw so much dedication and perseverance in their study habits, which is vital for something like the bar exam. There’s never 100% certainty with these things, but I’m feeling really good about this year’s class.

Anna Donovan: Good. Excellent. I got to witness a lot of the work you did. Very impressive. Students looked tired, but I’m very sure they’re glad it’s over. Let’s just start back from the very, very beginning. For any listeners who have probably heard of the bar exam, but don’t really know too much — they’re getting started in the law school application process — what is the bar exam? And related to that, you mentioned 35 states; how do you know which state to take it in?

Margaret Samadi: Good question. So, the bar exam is the licensure exam for those who intend to actually practice law. Each state — or jurisdiction, I should say — has various requirements and scoring limits, deadlines, and even subject matter. So it’s vital that you plan ahead when preparing for the bar exam.

There are different ways to determine which state exam to take. For example, if someone has accepted an attorney position post-graduation, obviously they’ll want to take the bar in the state where that job is located, so they can practice right away. If someone graduates without a position lined up, but they know where they intend to practice post-graduation, then they will probably want to take it in that state. For example, if someone intends to live near their hometown in Georgia when they start their career, they’ll probably want to take the Georgia bar.

Sometimes it’s not that simple, though, and that’s where strategy can come in. There are many states that use what’s called the Uniform Bar Examination (UBE), which is an exam written by the National Conference of Bar Examiners and given across multiple states and jurisdictions. If someone is very open geographically about where they want to practice law, I would recommend that they take it in a state that is offering the Uniform Bar Examination, because it is easier to transfer a UBE score to many other jurisdictions once they find a legal position in various states.

Anna Donovan: Excellent. So someone has picked what state they’re going to — either related to a job or where they want to practice — and they sign up to take a bar prep course. Tell us a little bit about these bar prep courses, and what you do, and how you study. Ooh — how you study? The answer is “a lot.” All day, every day, I see it.

Margaret Samadi: Well, there are multiple commercial bar preparation courses that students can choose from. We definitely recommend that students purchase a commercial course, because these are specifically created to help you prepare for the bar exam. The bar prep courses traditionally begin immediately after graduation, so usually around early May, and they go through the bar exam, which is always the last week in July. So it’s usually between 8 to 12 weeks of methodical, almost daily study on various topics covered on the bar exam. There are days off, of course. Balance is important when you’re tackling something like this.

Substantively, the bar prep courses usually have recorded lectures, practice tests, substantive outlines, quizzes, and other materials to prepare you for the bar exam. I see a lot of WashU students that regularly use the commercial bar courses from BARBRI and Themis. Both of those are really thorough and great ways to prepare.

Anna Donovan: Excellent. So we were talking to you as if you are a one-woman show, and I would say, probably for the most part, you were — but I know you had roped in some faculty and staff to be other bar liaisons to help students plan. Tell us about the general support you offered our students over these last couple of months.

Margaret Samadi: Sure. Definitely far from a one-woman show — I want to make that clear. We have what are called bar liaisons, and I love our bar liaisons. It’s such an important role. To start out with — our bar liaisons affirmatively support the students by crafting an individualized plan for success for the bar exam study period. So this usually begins with an initial meeting where the bar liaison will go over the student’s potential obstacles and their studying styles — maybe which commercial bar prep course selection of the ones we talked about, or others.

The bar liaisons not only set up the students with an initial plan for success, but they also serve as continuing support through the study period. Most bar liaisons, like me, have taken at least one bar exam — some of us more than one. So they understand the process and the frustrations.

The bar liaisons are there to empower the students and guide them through issues with studying, logistics, or just the general bumps that come up during the study period. They can help do things like set an accountability schedule or identify tutoring resources if they feel like they’re needed. Like I said before — it can be a grueling study period, so having people who have been through the process from the beginning is important.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. And I think that’s absolutely going to lead to the success of our students. I would love to use this time to brag a little bit more about WashU Law. What do you feel like you, the bar liaisons, and just WashU Law in general, are doing differently than other law schools when it comes to bar prep?

Margaret Samadi: Oh, good question. I think the individualized attention we provide to each of our bar studiers here at WashU Law is pretty unmatched. Everyone gets a bar liaison, like we discussed. So you’re starting off with someone at WashU Law firmly in your corner.

You also get to continue the WashU Law community even after graduation, for our bar studiers. That’s something we really try to make sure we do. We have the school open for studying. We provide daily snacks for our studiers on campus. We bring in the WashU Law comfort dogs as a stress reliever. We even host things like virtual work-together sessions for studiers who may be located outside of St. Louis. So it’s all part of continuing the WashU Law community during the bar prep study period.

We facilitate study groups and proctor on-campus mock bar exams. It really becomes a group effort. I joke that it’s like the nerdiest summer camp ever.

Anna Donovan: Yes, I think that’s wonderful — law school, kind of in a nutshell, just continuing after graduation. I don’t think we had talked about bar prep or anything on this topic on the podcast before, so I’m glad we are. I refer to our millions of listeners all the time on our podcast. But for people who are just getting into the idea of law school, or just deciding to apply — how early is too early to be thinking about the bar exam?

Margaret Samadi: Wow. Okay — well, I’m clearly a little biased because of my position, but honestly, once you’ve enrolled in law school, you should start to become familiar enough with the bar exam in a broad sense — what it is and what you’ll need to plan ahead for. But things really need to start ramping up on your strategic planning your second year, and then you can do things like selecting the courses that you may feel are helpful to prepare. There’s going to be property law on the bar — make sure you’ve taken Property, things like that.

Identifying prerequisites or deadlines for your jurisdiction — such as the MPRE, which is a requirement in most jurisdictions, so you’ll want to look into signing up for that. It’s an ethics exam. Or planning even for the cost of bar preparation courses. They can get pricey, so you need to start thinking about your budget when it comes to that, and how you’re going to pay for it.

By first semester of your third year of law school, you should definitely have a firm plan in place for your bar prep commercial course, the applicable deadlines you will face that year, and the information you need to start gathering for the application process, which can be extensive and can go back many, many years.

Anna Donovan: Excellent. I think that dovetails really nicely with your promotion to Assistant Director in the Career Center. You can talk to all of our students early, get it on their brain, remind them of these things — whisper in their ear stuff about the bar exam before it gets to 3L year. Another question: what are some common misconceptions that prospective students or law students have about the bar exam in general?

Margaret Samadi: Sure. I think some students initially underestimate the time commitment that goes into preparing and studying for the bar exam. I see students who have tested really well their whole lives and think they can wait until a few weeks before the exam to start studying. No — you absolutely cannot do that. There’s just too much information to cover.

There are also skills that must be learned that you likely didn’t get a lot of practice doing during your substantive legal education — such as writing essays under very tight time constraints, or interpreting multiple-subject multiple-choice questions. These require practice and dedication. I always recommend that students treat preparing and studying for the bar exam like a full-time job between graduation and sitting for the bar exam. That’s really how you have to attack it.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. So I know you talked a little bit earlier about the Uniform Bar Examination, and for anyone who is in this process, you’ll start hearing some acronyms. But something that has recently come up in the bar prep world and law school is the NextGen bar. Can you tell me — what is the NextGen bar, and when will it go into effect?

Margaret Samadi: Good question. The NextGen bar is the next iteration of the bar exam that the National Conference of Bar Examiners is in the process of developing right now. It’s set to debut in a few states starting in July 2026. And Missouri happens to be one of those states. Other jurisdictions are adopting the exam in 2027, some 2028. Some haven’t made a decision whether they intend to adopt it or not.

What it is — one of the criticisms of the traditional bar exam has been the amount of memorization you need to pass the exam, compared to the amount of memorization that attorneys actually use in practice. You’re able to go look things up in practice, whereas you’re not in the bar exam, usually. So the NextGen bar exam is NCBE’s attempt to provide a licensing exam for attorneys that is closer to legal practice — with more focus on foundational lawyering skills, things like legal research, evaluation, and client counseling, for example, and less rote memorization.

We unfortunately don’t know a ton about the NextGen bar exam, as we would like, this close to the implementation. But we do know the subjects will be narrower than the traditional bar exam, and the format will include not just multiple-choice questions, but also integrated question sets and performance tasks.

There are some sample NextGen bar exam questions for those who are interested on the NCBE’s website, and some more information about the NextGen bar exam on the NCBE’s website as well. Rest assured — WashU Law is keeping its thumb on the pulse of the NextGen bar updates as they come out.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll always have students who are taking the Missouri bar exam, and sure, other states as well that are going to transition into NextGen bar. I know we covered a lot of topics. Is there anything I missed? Anything else you want to add — that you want to tell our millions of listeners about the bar exam, or studying for the bar?

Margaret Samadi: Oh — well, I would like to tell those WashU Law students listening to reach out to me and discuss all things bar-related sooner rather than later. And for prospective students or anyone else facing the bar exam — please know that it’s completely doable with the right strategy and planning. Try not to be too intimidated. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Luckily, at WashU Law, we have towel carriers and water suppliers running with you on the marathon.

Finally, I’d like to end with the message that the bar exam is just one step in your legal career, and it does not define or indicate your worth as an attorney or professional. It’s just a hurdle that you can and will get over.

Anna Donovan: Absolutely. And I know, for WashU Law students going through our rigorous program — you will pass the bar. It is going to be okay, as much as it seems very stressful and time-consuming in the meantime. I’m going to spring a last question on you that we did not prepare you for, but usually at the end of our podcast we like to add in something about St. Louis. We like to get recommendations from our guests on things you love to do in St. Louis — if there’s a restaurant or an event or something we can just really highlight our great city with.

Margaret Samadi: Oh, great. Well, I live in Kirkwood, and so I love walking into downtown Kirkwood, and particularly going to the Kaldi’s there. The Kaldi’s in Kirkwood has a huge patio. In the summer, they bring bands. It’s really just a lovely way to spend a Saturday if you have the time.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, excellent. Kaldi’s is a local coffee roaster. There are a number of locations around campus in different neighborhoods. Kirkwood is such a great walkable neighborhood. Well, thank you so much for joining us on our podcast. We so appreciate it. As always — obviously we hope that people will check out WashU Law if they’re considering law school, but also dig into the data. If you’re looking at other law schools, look at their bar passage rate and their data, and you can ask questions to those schools about how they support their students studying for the bar. So, thank you, Margaret.

Margaret Samadi: Thanks for having me.

Anna Donovan: All right — bye.