Julz Dunne

Todd D: On this episode, we talked to Julz Dunn. Julz is a leading NIL strategist, brand manager, and media expert who built one of the most powerful personal brands in college sports. She’s the strategic mind behind over 100 brand partnerships and a 13 million-plus audience platform. Julz has been in People magazine and has won multiple awards. She’s also the older sister of Livy Dunn, one of the highest-paid female athletes in the NIL era. Listen to find out how two sisters in a Florida bedroom launched the most powerful NIL brand in the world. Super, super good to have you. Julz, how are you doing? Julz? Talk to us.

Julz D: Thank you for having me. I’m doing well. How are you?

Todd D: I’m doing good. I’m doing good. So I don’t want to talk about myself. But I do want to talk about you. So I appreciate you joining. Just to set the table. So every sort of every episode, we’re talking about something cool in sports and entertainment. Today’s Today’s podcast. And the next couple probably are going to be NIL. Related. Again, name, image, likeness related, as you know. And you see Julz shaking your head. But it is a newer thing. It’s sort of ubiquitous. Everybody knows about it now. But again, I’m an older person and even though Julz is not an older person, Julz was actually probably at the beginning of when this whole thing took off. And we’re going to talk about that. But now this NIL sort of movement, we’ll call it a movement. This NIL name, image, likeness movement, whether it be in the college sports, whether it be in sports, sports, whether it be actually in entertainment, there’s something called digital replicas. It’s all over the place. So just let’s, let’s start out just to get an understanding.

You were there in the beginning, right? And obviously you’re the brand strategist. You manage this gigantic brand, your sister. And how did you basically go from you were in school for kinesiology degree, right?

Julz D: Yeah.

Todd D: So you were in school for kinesiology degree. It seems like you were planning on doing something else. And then there wasn’t really an NIL market. But yet somehow you took that and created this gigantic thing. How did that happen?

Julz D: Yeah. I mean, my NIL journey started long before NIL was even a thought in anyone’s minds ever on horizon or anything. It really started during Covid, I would say. We were quarantined here at our brand mother’s place in Florida, doing whatever one was doing, doing, scrolling the days away. And my mom came in the room and she said, hey, you know, if you’re consuming all this media, someone has to be the one producing it, get on producing side. And also at this time, it’s the first time in my sister’s life she doesn’t have gymnastics. So she kind of channeled all that discipline and drive and applied it to social media. And, you know, I was just coming off of my freshman year at college. I had the most boxing time at LSU, and I was excited for my sister to be there next year.

So, you know, you just started getting into content creation. And I mean, it was kind of natural from the beginning. I’d come up with little ideas for the two of us to film or something for her to film and for me to be post, and I changed. It’s like a little bit of content strategy in that way, helping her film, looking at analytics, different things like that. And then the school year started and she was most likely genetically in the country, but she couldn’t off it off of it at all or anything. And people told her, like, all screw it, don’t go to school like go to LA and join all the TIC TOK houses. And she’s like, no, I’ve been working all my life to juju to do this gymnastics thing.

Like, I just love doing social media for fully for the love of the game. And like I said, even going into her freshman year and I. Isn’t even a thought. It’s not even like on the horizon of things that are going to happen. She was genuinely just doing it for the love of doing content creation. And I was just again helping her all the way.

I was looking at the analytics. I was like, oh, like, look how this video did compared with it, but just different things like that. Then came 2021 will change. The unexpected happened. And then from there, I mean, she obviously had deals come in and lawyers, agents, everything took this a long time to sort it all out, get it all figured out and find the balance.

But you know, while she was in class or at practice, I was like, I could hop on the calls with the brands. I could come up with the concepts of your math from practice. We can film in and I’ll edit in. We’ll go back and forth. And I kind of just naturally stepped into this manager role. I call it being like a professional older sister.

And, helped her out along the way. And, you know, it kind of grew. And as I was competing a time in college and doing my degree, I said, you know what? I love this just as much, if not more. And I really, just step right up into it.

Todd D: That’s amazing. So, like, just when was the time that you sort of saw, hey, this is going to be a real thing, right? In other words, it sounds like you always had a vision for for content creation. And your sister was was awesome in gymnastics and whatnot. You generally liked it, but when what was the point, like the tipping point where you were all like, okay, this is for real now.

In other words, let me let me just give you a background. So I have six kids, right? I have my son’s like 20 now or 1920. He’s a and he like does some stuff like that, you know not obviously not on your all level. But he does some stuff like that. So like what was the point when it came from just content creation to oh, this is going to be a thing like, this is what I’m doing for a living, so to speak, right?

Julz D: I mean, I involvement came up with the rule change. I mean, just to see like like our lives literally changed like that. It was it was epic. It was crazy. But it was like absolutely awesome. And like, it’s been such, like a awesome journey and and I’m so, so glad to be honest.

Todd D: That that’s amazing. Yeah. I mean, obviously you’re you’re super successful and you know that, right? It’s not. Again, there’s there are a lot of content creators out there. Right. Like the first part of your story, a million more than that, probably like a billion people could have said that. Right. So it’s like, hey, we were stuck in Covid, right?

Not everybody’s mother is as smart as yours, obviously, but we’re stuck in Covid. Whatever it is to we’re doing the content creation. There’s a lot of people like that. But something about the way you all did it, like your approach, right? It was just it blew up and it’s interesting. So do you remember how it felt? Sort of hey, and we’re going to get it to NIL questions.

But I just am fascinated. Right. Because again, I see it firsthand. I have my my kids, I see I see what’s going on in the world. I do I do these types of deals in the real world as well. So it’s just so interesting to me how you write again, you were a freshman at LSU, right? When you when you started, right?

That’s pretty young. So you’re a freshman at LSU and then all of a sudden, you know, this huge thing like rocket ship takes off. How did your life change? Like what? What was that like?

Julz D: I mean, of course it was like fun in the beginning, just for the thrill of the numbers, like go up. And I think a lot of big part of that had to do with like, being very intentional with what we’re posting and being pretty strategic about it. And, you know, it’s like always those it was just like thrilling to go in like, wow.

Like we’ll try to keep them like out to each other, out to the last video. Just like seeing like what what we could do, where it could go. I mean, it was it was exciting. It was the whole process, like, I mean, especially at that time when, like, you had the whole world at your fingertips.

Todd D: And that’s amazing. How did you decide? Like so again, there are going to be people listening to us. A lot of people are trying to do content from that side of it. How did you decide, you know, because you were saying, look, you were there was a lot of strategy. You’re looking at analytics. So how do you decide you know, what to post?

And probably even more importantly, what not to post? Does that make sense?

Julz D: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think especially if you ask with a video that may look like it took like two seconds to lip sync this, the really three seconds to flip, I flip on the beach or whatever she’s doing. There’s 500 videos in the draft. I mean, everything from like, lighting is like is so, so, so intentional. And, you know, if you’re confident and in you’re feeling confident with peace.

Julz D: I think that that really wholesome drive pulled some powder that like, you know, that a lot of people don’t don’t think about it. They don’t they don’t realize like actually how much effort went into like, oh, I didn’t like the way that my eyebrow moved in that last one. Like, just like just some things as simple as that.

Which I’m not saying it would be like received differently by the audience, but I feel like it’s the confidence of you posting it, going into it. And like just a count intentional. You are being about the content you’re reading, right?

Todd D: And you and and obviously not obviously where I’m asking you, but it sounds like you had a very good idea, sort of of the brand and the brand positioning because again, I see, I see from the company side of it a lot of times, and not as much from the creator as as you, but from the company side.

Again, they’re, they’re, they’re sort of brand identities and the brand identities. Right? They want to look they want to align with creators that sort of align with their brand identity. So, you and a mistake that I see people make and you could, you know, I want to hear your opinion because you know more than me about this, but a mistake I think, that people could make, which you all did not make like you were amazing at.

Todd D: It is people could get excited. Hey, we have this deal, we have that deal. Just start signing stuff and not caring or taking care of. Like what type of brand identity do you want to create? Right? So maybe you could speak to that a little bit, maybe some give an example of that, maybe some deals that you did think of that nature.

Julz D: Yeah, I mean, I think a big thing that lot of people don’t learn about NIL is the business side of it. Picking the lawyers, going through the contracts, reading the right, like seeing the deliverables. Because many times begin to ask that you and, you know, not everyone takes the time to really learn what’s going on or the business of it.

You’re trying to change turn funding to profit, but you want to do it all out, using authenticity to your brain. You know, picking in sometimes that comes with say no. And that is probably the hardest lesson we had the hardest, though. We had all this, you know, the dollars are in your face, but you say, no, it’s not like whether it’s because the athletes are in season and they’re asking for five in-person appearances and that’s just not doable.

Or if it’s totally just like, not something that’s natural to your daily life. I mean, saying no is difficult, but it saves you lot and it definitely helps with the balance as a student athlete and pursuing an idol.

Todd D: So take me, take me there. Right? I want to try to imagine this because again, I know how I was when I was your age and when I was younger even, right? It’s so take me there. You’re all there, right? It’s sort of things are blowing up, right? And you have an opportunity. That’s a gigantic opportunity. I’m just assuming it was in the beginning, but maybe it wasn’t.

Right. Huge opportunity. And it comes to you all, and you know that either it doesn’t align with your brand or it doesn’t align with your schedule or what you want to be, or even what your brand, what you want the brand to be. Right? It might be fine where it is now, but maybe something down the line it didn’t align with right?

Todd D: And you have to say no. But it’s a really, really good take me there. I want to hear what happened. What was that like?

Julz D: One thing that I very especially being more on LED is assumed brand side of things. If it’s difficult in the beginning, it will be difficult all the way through. So if you are not aligned from the Joe right, it is not going to be an easy process to complete the deliverables, the deals. Now, if it’s coming, if it is something big and flashy and then your face and it is something that like you’re super excited about, but it’s like six in person and like in person appearances and like X, Y and Z deliveries.

And it’s just like, so too big of a commitment. I think one thing that we really love to do, but then communicate that for the brand, is like we are interested either a later time or be cut down into a smaller deal. Maybe it’s a one off, maybe it’s only two post, maybe it’s something like that. But definitely when those things are are big nuggets in your face, maybe not too authentic to you.

It is a hard thing to pass, but honestly, and this this very much goes for the entire team. If it it’s at the end of the day to her and to us, it’s like not about the dollars. It’s about do I actually enjoy your product? Will this actually be a fun thing to post? And will my audience like it?

Does it align with my audience? I mean, I think it’s very important, and I think one thing that her and I do very well is how are your on the pools of what’s going on, what’s trending, what is working for her audience and what they’re responding to. And I think that’s something she takes a lot of pride in.

And I do, as well as just, you know, knowing what is going to hit, and what’s not, whether that is just a product in general or their idea for a campaign.

Todd D: And is that is that like, is that just a gift or is there any sort of science to that, that.

Julz D: Make sense? A little bit of science to that. I just actually wrote a whole some stuff about this. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think there, there is the science to it and it is it is being able to go past consuming the media into study the media, the media that’s on your explorer pages, the your own media, and like how that is performing through analytics and just being aware of like what trends are happening.

What are your followers liking? Commenting on your clothes, acknowledging, responding, interacting with the. So just kind of like understanding your your audience and what is happening in like the social climate of the algorithm, which the algorithm is always ever changing. But, you know, everyone’s algorithm is kind of tailored to them. So that kind of army is a community building aspect to your own content creation.

Todd D: That’s amazing. Yeah. And just obviously it’s easy to see here. Like the first thing I don’t know if you picked this up, but I did the first sort of first thing you said, right. We’re back in Covid in Florida, which I was. I was stuck like in Saint Louis. Nothing wrong with Saint Louis, but I was stuck in Saint Louis.

I’d much rather be stuck in Florida. Right? So like, you’re stuck in Florida, Covid and all these things are happening. And one of the first sort of things you mentioned was tracking the analytics. Analytics. So you. Oh, so it’s interesting, right? Not everybody thinks that way. But obviously like and I know hindsight’s 2020. But if I was looking back and I saw you and your mother obviously picked it up, you know, you were you were you were sort of playing chess.

Other people are playing checkers. Right? So I think that’s that’s not the whole reason you’re successful, obviously, but that that’s definitely a part of it.

Julz D: Right? I will say they promised my mom she is like a like a true awesome entrepreneur boss at all this back in the day. Covid we’re sitting there are accounts are growing. Olivia has this dream of being better fired. And like all these things were building assignments and tracking analytics. My mom would have spreadsheets of who was growing alongside of Olivia, what rate, and then how many followers you gain on TikTok.

How does that convert to others gain on Instagram? We convert elsewhere, so we were truly tracking the analytics like you’ve never seen. I mean, even to this day, we still do the same thing. We were running analytics yesterday, sitting on a table talking about different algorithms for different social platforms. It’s something like we still watch devastating.

Todd D: Yeah. And I’m going to go with you and we can edit this in post, but I’m just going to get out with you like I do a lot of AI stuff. So I, I just love this stuff. I remember back in the day when people didn’t even call it AI, there was just sort of modeling and all these types of things like it’s just amazing.

It’s amazing what you can do.

Julz D: Literally, when I tell you yesterday my mom, my sister was out to when my mom ran a whole like Claude deep dive into Instagram and just like, and this is how like this is underperforming. I think posts like this, this is a just like all these different things and just like what algorithms are done and and she did the deep dive on like YouTube shorts and then the deep dive on Facebook.

And just like what worked and which ones are down and what percentage is there boosted. And just like all these different things and it is genuinely and analytics or something. I watched very closely even Olivia beyond just her personal analytics on her. Like for fun, who’s on brand posts like just seeing like how many clips like conversion rates, just like different things.

But that’s really a truly driver for her and mission in social media. And that’s just like a business person and entrepreneur.

Todd D: That’s amazing. Yeah. That’s I so again, when I was working at a company, I was working on one of these. It was again in the early they didn’t call it I then, but it was sort of predictive analytics to try to. And it literally was to the point where based on their algorithm, like I could tell you, you know, what type of food or drink you’re going to order, like if you’re at a bar, like how many of them you’re going to order, like it’s crazy what people can do with these things.

It’s crazy. So it’s cool that you all are like, I mean, it’s not cool. It’s it’s sort of obvious, right? When you pull the curtain back, it’s sort of obvious that you are so successful and these are the things that you’re doing. It makes it makes a lot of sense to me. So let’s go back. I just I want to go back and forth for a second.

So as you know, right. You were you were right when you started NIL. And and like we’re in that Florida house NIL didn’t exist. So just for whoever’s listening, the name, image, likeness, college athletes were not allowed to take any money basically to license out their name, image, likeness. They were not allowed to do it right. And I’m not getting into whether it’s right or wrong now, whatever it is.

But just legally, they were not allowed to do it. So if if I’m just going to throw it out there, right. If Nike wanted to or whoever the brand is, Nike, Under Armor wanted to do a deal with a college athlete, right? They would not be able to do that deal. They wouldn’t be able to license their name, image, likeness, the athlete themselves.

So you were living at that experience, right? In 2019, you said when you were a freshman and your sister was doing these hosts together with you. And then one day, right, the college sports, however it went, it was sort of steered. But college sports allowed student-athletes on different levels, whether it be to the schools or not, to the schools that came a little later, licensed their name, image, likeness. Right. So when that happened to you, you were there in the beginning, and you’re there now. How did things change from then to now? What do you see? Like, sort of how did it. What was the evolution? What’s different now than that?

Julz D: I mean, I think definitely in the beginning it was just such and it still is a pretty unknown territory. But I mean, it had never been talked about before and like going into it. She’s also the most or the highest followed collegiate athlete in the country. Which was just and like I said, that was going into it like even her freshman year of college NIL was not on the horizon.

She was genuinely just doing social media because she enjoyed social media.

Todd D: Wow. That’s crazy.

Julz D: So, you know, and I mean, in the beginning, it was just it’s so unknown. And I know some people like they changed their like signing their, their agents when I mean we took months to, pick our agent and and get like the right look at everything. And also like on top of that, you know, she’s not in a, a of a revenue generating sport. She’s a, she’s a gymnast. She’s not getting she’s not paid by LSU. Like LSU is not paying her she’s not doing like, she’s doing like true NIL.

Todd D: Right, right.

Julz D: Oh, right. Which I know I think was new for everyone in the beginning. And I know that that’s changed a lot now on how NIL is being handled. But I mean, to this day I’ve been through the LIVY fund and other activations we do we’re we’re big advocates for NIL and that. But I mean, in the beginning it was just like it was so, so unknown.

And like I know we said saying no to things, but just finding that balance took so long. And just figuring out like, you know, one starting off of what agents were going to work with and like, you know, we have so many entertainment agents come to us, come to us. But at the end of the day, you need someone who understands life of the athlete because brands don’t care that you have weight sets at 7 a.m., the brands don’t care that you have a like involuntary volunteer service happening.

That thing like like like it’s just different things like that happened. The life of the athlete or the thing i was saying erlier like you’re in season, they don’t care, but they want you at these six appearances like things like that. And we needed people who really understood working with athletes. So, you know, we we found the right people. It took us a while to do that process.

And then on top of that, balance out deliverables, balance out brand and do things such as that. But I feel like there was a lot of trial and error. But we found our way. We found our balance and we forged our path.

Todd D: Yeah. That’s amazing. Yeah. And so obviously you did it in a very methodical way. Right. As we just get here from talking to you that you’re very thought through and very methodical. So what are type what are some type of advice that you have. So for college athletes now. Right. I know and I do want to talk about the levy fund.

And I want to talk about sort of your you know because you did mention true NIL. Right. So just I want to give back a little background so that people understand what that means. Right. And there’s so much I want to talk to you about. But so let’s talk about how how things are working now. Right. So there really are two tracks.

That’s just the reality, right. So you have someone, you have someone, let’s say in a non-revenue generating sport, let’s say. Because again, there are certain there’s certain types of sports, whether it be college football in the South or college basketball at certain schools. There are certain sports that basically they make money for the schools, or at least that’s what they’re they think that they’re doing.

People think they’re doing that. Right. And in those in those sports, right, there are college athletes that are part of the part of the teams, and the system is set up now to be able to have them get paid for their name, image, likeness as well, while they’re playing, while they’re performing. Right. But but like you said, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a big component.

Right. Not I’m not saying that the payments going to the to the athlete for playing. I’m not talking about that at all. But I’m just saying it’s a different type of consideration as you’re as you’re explaining it, when you have someone coming from a revenue generating sport or you have someone like your sister or someone, I want to even say volleyball, right?

Gymnast? I think that’s sort of the new big one. But gymnastics, volleyball, maybe lacrosse, things of that nature where they’re not the school sort of has them, and they could be cool on great sports, but they’re not making a profit for the school, so to speak, although your sister probably did. Right, but they’re not making a profit for the school, so to speak.

And in that case, right, you know, your sister, you and your sister basically said, hey, we want to create a brand and the license out this name, image and likeness. It’s the same as anybody else. It doesn’t even have to be in a in a college athlete sort of experience. Right. So when we’re talking about licensing your name, image, likeness like anybody could, could be doing that.

Right. If people want to pay you for it. Right. So that’s sort of what we’re talking about. True NIL as opposed to NIL when we’re talking in a revenue generating sport where you have people playing, you know, performing and whatnot. And not that the payments tied to that, but that’s sort of how the this is split up. Right.

So maybe talk about a little bit about you said the Livi fund and yourself, you have certain a certain view of that. Maybe you want to talk a little bit about that.

Julz D: Yeah. I mean I think one of the main passions, what is the big fund is an opportunity for other female athletes to be able to work with private brands, grants and stuff that they may otherwise not be able to to partner with. And it’s a way to teach other female athletes how to build their personal brand and build up their NIL value.

And it is. It is truly an awesome, such an awesome experience. Even from my end, I. I work with all the female athletes. I simply do what I do for live for them on a little bit of a smaller scale. But yeah, it is to build their credibility and be able to build a brand because a lot of female sports, as we were just saying, like if there aren’t revenue generating sports or not getting the prime time TV slot.

Todd D: Right.

Julz D: And there’s not a lot of times getting a professional league out of it. And if they are, they’re not like high a profit lead or anything. So I think while you practice school and you have this built in audience with this built in fan base, it’s your time to capitalize off your name, image and likeness. And you know what?

If you’re not even going to do it for yourself, do it for your work. Get the eyes on your work. Get that prime time slot. I mean, even like for gymnastics, for example, like amount of height. I mean, not sports in the soccer. Always crazy, but like, I mean, to just like want to that. I mean, you see it with women’s basketball team.

They brought to that and just to do it for your sport. If you’re not going to do it for yourself. I think it is. It is something powerful. But but at back to the funding. Yeah. I think providing these opportunities for other women in sports to build up their value and build a brand that can lead them to a career past their collegiate career, because maybe they’re not going to that low paying professional league or they did not going past college.

It gets them something, a personal brand that could carry them past their college career.

Todd D: And what do you what do you think I’ve just thrown out there? And what do you think sort of the next because again gymnastics your sister and blue blew up gymnastics. Right. So like what do you think the next sports or next up and coming sports, especially if we’re talking about, you know, female athletes. Right. And you’re empowering them and you’re doing all these things for them.

What are sort of these next sports that you identify and be like, hey, you really have amazing shot for yourself and for this sport to really blow up.

Julz D: I mean, I really think it is doable for any sport and get a moment. I mean, even you said volleyball has been.

Todd D: I think that’s my that’s what I think. I think volleyball.

Julz D: I really I think volleyball is awesome. Obviously women’s basketball has been on the rise. I’m, I’m a big softball fan. I watched the Women’s College World Series. So I see oh, those of you who are numbers are going up. I know you can see in women’s field hockey and women’s lacrosse are.

Todd D: Full of hockey.

Julz D: Yes, hockey is on the up and women’s lacrosse is on the. I truly think it is doable across any sport. Right. If you you bring the bring the right powder to that.

Todd D: I think field hockey is going to have a thing. Now that you mentioned it actually. Now I didn’t think about it. But you’re from the northeast, right? I think field hockey is pretty big there, right?

Julz D: Yeah. Right. I mean, I have seen something about the Unk post that comes along. I take talk and I mean, I just all the women’s sports. I really I think it is doable. I think I also think it’s a tool for anyone. I feel like there is a way to, to build your personal brand, but that’s how we love to see women’s sports yet built up.

And it brought hype to the.

Todd D: One thing. What’s some advice that you would give? Because again, you’re really you did it the right way and you’re amazing. So like, what’s some advice you would give someone right in these sports that or really any creator but in these sports that hey do this and or like what’s some mistakes that you see are common that people make.

Right. And you would say, don’t do that. Yeah.

Julz D: My first thing would be to ask them, who were you outside of your sport who were beyond peers? I think that is such an important thing to consider when you’re building a personal brand. I mean, sports only so long ago or not enough to come to an end one day. And I’m not saying don’t post about sport, but I’m saying post about worry about outsiders.

But most of my personality, whether that is something as simple as what you made for breakfast, what song are you listening to on the way back this week to be around it? But who are you and you’re supporting? Those pillars are going to be the pillars that will guide you beyond your college, athletic career or any athletic career.

I think that’s an important part of personal brand building to recognize. And I would also say like try to learn to understand the contracts, learn to understand deliverables, learn to understand the payment, like timelines, just just different things to be aware of, I think. Or if you don’t, if you’re struggling with that, find people who know right. But and understand that and understand your life is not that.

I think those are like two really important things that we consider when it came to the to the brand and between brain building and just keep going and it just happened. Who are you outside of your sport and have the people on your side who understand the life of an athlete, but also understand the contracts and deliverables? And I think that I think those are two very important things to consider.

Todd D: So you’re obviously very smart, but so take me there because a lot I could see actually some people having similar type of success. Right. Limited type of success. And then you get to a certain point, right. You’re saying understand deliverers understand that. So take me back. Right when you were there and you were blowing up, things were going amazing.

And then all of a sudden NIL became permitted. And how do you get yourself up to speed? Because again, you were thoughtful and deliberate to find the right types of people. Where does someone start? Right? Where does someone know how to look for the right people, who the right people are and what? What sort of things do you look for?

Julz D: Sure? I mean, I think, I think in our scenario would be a lot of people coming to us and understand bullet point parents. My mom was has been an entrepreneur or my father is also an attorney. So I feel like that really helped us now.

Todd D: Okay, so you’re there you go.

Julz D: Yeah. My my mom works with us. My dad said, I am not going to be charged of your contracts. I don’t know what to screw up your life.

Todd D: My my my my dad. Yeah. There you go.

Julz D: Just like I’ll be your cheerleader from the sidelines. Great. But, I think I think it is good to reach out. I mean, the national schools have a lot of and resources, but, you know, reach out to the right people. But I’m also saying you don’t need to have the viewers. You don’t need to have an agent. You don’t need to have a like an ill lawyers or anything like that.

You can do it yourself. You can for yourself. You can reach out to embrace. But I think it is. You do need to be aware of the contracts you’re reading and what they’re asking of you, right? Right. Just go take the time to to understand and digest that.

Todd D: Cool. And what? So let me ask you a couple of fun questions. At least they’re fun for me. So what was the coolest experience you ever had so far? The coolest.

Julz D:
I look at it.

Todd D: You have too many things. One yeah.

Julz D: Like especially in the NIL world. I mean, we have done so many different things from the Super Bowl, World Cup, the but but I think one of the most interesting things that I don’t think a lot of people realize, especially with Olivia, is there like, oh, she’s such as high profile at the at the school, like her coaches must have given her offer to offer to do things that were just not true.

Julz D: The correct coaches there, like your life outside of this, has nothing to do with us and you do not get off. And I think one of the more interesting and like insane plays we did was used to shoot Sports Illustrated, right? And usually shorts illustrated. She is a week long for a model or something within a week or something like that.

She doesn’t get off for that. I just don’t care. Friday after practice, shot Saturday flew. That Sunday was back in time for Monday practice.

Todd D: Oh my gosh that’s crazy.

Julz D: To Portugal. So it’s like we’re flying like like to Europe for 24 hours to fly back. Like just things like that. Like like it was just like that was one of the crazier things I think we’ve done.

Todd D: But it’s so funny, like how people don’t understand. Right? The world. Because you. You’re your sister. One. Didn’t they win like a gymnastics championship, which she was there.

Julz D: They won the first LSU national championship.

Todd D: So it’s so funny like you know again people from the outside are looking at this NIL you know I’ll call it the college sports where we’re going to talk about transition to. But like the college sports NIL world. Right. And everybody in the world sort of like say know your brand, know your sister and everything like that. And you’re thinking, okay, cool.

She’s she’s going to do Sports Illustrated. She can do that. The coach doesn’t care. The coach is like, you don’t get off. You know, you better protect yourself. Yeah. Be back for practice, like on Sunday, or you’re like, you’re off the team.

Julz D: That’s crazy. 100%. I mean, it was it’s not his job to to give her a leeway and let her skip practices stuff. It’s not like you’re a part of this team and like that’s for like I said, the white representation comes into play. If you need people who are willing to go to bat for you and your schedule and like, understand the commitment of a student happily.

Todd D: Amazing. So you went to Portugal?

Julz D: Yeah, it’s a little Portugal for 24 hours and flew back to shoot Sports Illustrated. I was her rookie year in Sports Illustrated.

Todd D: Hopefully first class. I hope it was first class. You don’t have to sell, but I hope it was first class. If not, tell me. I’ll write it in.

Julz D: It was such a blur I barely remember to the plate.

Todd D: That’s amazing. Okay, so like so again now sort of in the we’re trying to get this the big picture of the NILe experience. Right. So you have that now experience the college sports and experience. You lived it. You basically created it just for being the real here. Right. It started. There was no such thing. Now it’s huge, right?

So you lived it. And now it’s this sort of transition state, right? From being a college athlete. NIL. And just for those people that are listening, right. This is a little bit about law. So you should know name image likeness is not something that’s only in college sports. Right. People pretty much any actor in a movie or any other type of content, they have to they basically have to grant a license to their name, image, likeness.

It’s included in the agreements and whatnot. But that’s sort of what they’re doing. So essentially you’re taking your NIL, the value of the brand that you’re creating, and now you’re bringing it from the college sports experience to, to, to the. I don’t want to call the real world, but just to say the world at large. Right. Like talk about that transition and how it’s been for you all and and what are the challenges, what are the good things and what sort of you see moving forward.

Julz D: Right. I mean, I think there comes a point at any one slave, if you if you’ve ever done sports, whether you’re finishing your high school career or your Tom Brady finishing NFL career or a college athlete finishing their collegiate career where it feels like a little bit of a loss of identity like this. This has been a part of your life, you’ve been training at it, and now it’s you’re not going to what we’re talking.

It’s no longer part of your everyday identity. It’s like, all right, now what? And I definitely think you didn’t. Philippian who built out this such an awesome personal brand he created in that she was like, well, now what? Because I think at the end of the day, it was important for us that, she wasn’t just an influencer.

She didn’t want to be put in just a creator boss and were even in her, like, very high profile relationship, like just a girlfriend, like she did. That was not who she was. She was always a gymnast who did social media in her room. So, I mean, I think it was about that next step. And and this is where when I was saying, like who argue about your sport that really guides you in that post of athletic career life.

And, you know, she has always had a good drive for performance, obviously, whether it is on the internet or being well or now acting. So I mean, that was just something that you instantly fell in love with, if also something that she could handle that like drive to. And right off the bat she’s like, I want to fail.

I want to suck at it. Like she hired acting coaches and and, got to learning right away. And she she to this day still Ryan treats it like this word, I mean and inside it. And it is something she super passionate about. I mean obviously obviously we have Baywatch launching in January, which she’s very excited about, but, it was just it was a transition phase that that can be difficult for a lot of people.

So I really like going back to what I was saying, think that building those pillars of who are involved in your sport are important when it comes to that transitional phase.

Todd D: That’s amazing. And obviously like just just hearing that. And let’s talk about because I think this is the thing if you’re an athlete, right, especially at her level and whatnot, you know, she she was she was recruited very young and there was a whole, you know, obviously go to LSU and whatnot. It takes a tremendous amount of discipline.

I think even just just being taking a step back. So gymnastics in itself, I think that’s one of the required sort of one of the most discipline of all the different types of sports. So just being able to harness that discipline and just dedicate, she’s just so dedicating in every in this new, new path. But how how are you all not scared?

I don’t mean scared to do that. But you have you have some type of like thing about your sort of personality that, you know, when you’re sitting in that room again in 2019, in Florida, even though your mom said, you know, do x, y, z, you all were not scared and you did it right, like, I’m sure my mom told me stuff before and I’m like, okay, whatever, mom.

You know, you didn’t. You saw a challenge and you really just tackled it. And the same thing goes with acting and whatever’s coming next. So sort of maybe obviously you can’t you can’t make other people have that. They maybe speak to that. You know why? What do you all look at when you could easily be scared to do something or try something new, or be dedicate something you have?

What motivates you to to do that?

Julz D: Yeah. I mean, I always say step zero is to get over yourself. Like, yeah, like, don’t be afraid to like, this is so quick. Like you can’t be afraid to absolutely fail and eat it like, I mean, I watch what we’ll do, like her entire life for 20 something years, flip on a four inch being like, how are you not scared to do it?

She’s like, yeah, because I, I have I been like possible that you can imagine like going wrong has happened. She’s like I’ve done like she’s like I, I’ve fallen off the I did, I’ve fallen off the beam and broke bones. I fell in off the demon like, like just all the time. And she’s like, well, you know, you can’t be afraid to to fail because that’s how you learn, that’s how you grow.

And I think especially in social media, something that like serum, it’s a it’s a display of yourself, like in your personality to the world. Right. But it’s going to is to get over yourself. Because how do you expect to grow your brand if you’re not going to post empty thing? So even going into acting, I mean, like I said, off the bat, she was like, I want to fail.

Like I want to have to work at it and try and not get the call back and not have those things, because that will make me better at it. And I think being able to treat it like a sport and, you know, not be afraid really has benefited from the end. And I think that’s something that is so like me to athletes to have that drive, to have the discipline to, you know, keep going in the face of failure.

Right. That will make them more successful in grand building than maybe just a random person off the street. You know, I think it it is within their personality type to have that competitive level to, to keep it going.

Todd D: Amazing. Okay. What do you think is next? Like what’s next for you? What’s next for her? What’s next for everything and what’s next for sports in like the NIL world.

Julz D: I don’t even know what’s happening more. And it’s like I could tell you. Oh, you know, I think, in the grand scheme of NIL in sports, I hope to see, I hope to see some people forge their own path and build up their name, image and likeness and build a personal brand because it is so doable.

And it’s right there. Your name? Like I said, your name is on the roster with built in fan base is there, the audience is there, and there is a body truly for everything. Pick up the phone and post something right? Start today. Grab the phone. Postal you’re eating for breakfast. I promise you someone cares, right? And that. And you know if you’re going to sit there and say to yourself like, well, no one’s going to care why my time skincare routine is and no one’s going to care how much I lived in one.

Well, that’s the post. That’s that’s the reason you’re not going to. That could be the post that sets off your career. So just pick up the phone post, start building your brand right now. Which is what I would really love to see out of these athletes in this new era of sports. And I know just people building on their personal brand, building up their value.

Todd D: And is your business available? Like are you are you available to, to consult offer services or anything like that with for any for any of these athletes or like where could they reach you.

Julz D: They you can reach me through my website or reach me on my LinkedIn. Email me. I’m around so feel free to reach out.

Todd D: Awesome. And who are you? So who is your target? So like, look, I know I have some clients that I wish I didn’t have and I’m sure you do too. And I have some that very few that I wish I did have. So what what sort of your perfect your perfect type of if you could paint them. Oh, this is a perfect type of client.

Perfect type of athlete that I can really work with, right. They don’t have to be amazing, but like something, something where you see potential in them and you really want to work with them.

Julz D: Yeah, I want I, I think it’s so rewarding to work with people who are eager and ambitious to get their foot in the door in, in personal brand building. I needed to have the drive to want to do it, like I said it over yourself and start posting. That’s the that’s going to be the most successful. Yeah. And I am amazing.

Todd D: Amazing. Okay, Julz. Awesome. I really appreciate your time. Seriously. It was amazing. Thank you again.

Julz D:
Well thank you I appreciate it.

Todd D: This was the Washu Law sports and entertainment podcast hosted by Todd Davidowitz and produced and engineered by Billy Gutierrez. Find us on Spotify and YouTube, and you can contact us at sportsandentertainment@wustl.edu.