What You Need to Know About Letters of Recommendation

Naomi Stewart: Welcome back. This is our third episode of Applying Yourself, the law school admissions podcast, hosted by the admissions team from Washington University’s School of Law. My name is Naomi Stewart. I serve as a Director of Admissions.

Anna Donovan: And I’m Anna Donovan, the communications program manager.

Naomi Stewart: Wonderful. And so the next few episodes, we will be breaking down different parts of the application. And today we have a special guest joining us.

Anna Donovan: Yeah. We are very, very excited to welcome our very first guest on the podcast. She is the Vice Dean of Institutional Success, Katherine Scannell. Katie, do you want to talk a little bit about really what your title does not say, is that you’re over admissions and the career center?

Katherine Scannell: I am. I’m over admissions and the career center. And I just wanted to say that this is my very first podcast. So I have not been a guest on a podcast before, and I’m super excited to be here. So my role is over both admissions and the career center, as you mentioned. And I love this structure because every law student is looking at law school as a huge investment and a huge investment of time, money. And they’re excited to find a fulfilling career when they leave. At WashU, we like to think about careers even as students are going through the application process. And so I really love that my role gets to oversee both admissions and the Career Center.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. I mean, that’s a big part of law school is getting the most out of the whole experience, the resources. You know, you’re putting a lot into this. You deserve to get a lot out of it. And really, that approach at WashU Law, at least, is putting all of those things in concert to work together for you. And so really, we’ve seen that over the years, and in your role, Katie, over both offices.

Today’s episode, episode 3 of our podcast, is talking about letters of recommendation. They’re a fundamental part of your law school application. Most schools require them, and they’re a part of your whole package that you are going to submit to law schools for your application to be considered complete. Katie, why are letters of recommendation so important for admissions committees?

Katherine Scannell: They just they give us a window into some of the stuff that the rest of your materials don’t tell us. Your resume and your personal statement are all very important, but your letters of recommendation are really the opportunity for us to hear about you, your personal characteristics, your qualities, what you’ll bring to the classroom, and hear it from someone other than yourself. I know sometimes it’s a little hard to brag about yourself, but your recommenders can do this, and we really look forward to hearing what they have to say. We also know that they can be completely honest with us. So the recommenders submit those letters without you seeing them, and that that helps us to know that they are being completely transparent in their recommendation of you.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. Letters of recommendation, Anna and I, we review a lot of applications.

Anna Donovan: We do.

Naomi Stewart: We’ve read many LORs. And it’s always so interesting, like just for example, reading a letter of recommendation, maybe someone’s been in the military. The recommender will write about this project they’ve worked on, the impact it had on people, all the different pieces they put together in a way that maybe the applicant themselves wouldn’t go into that detail, but the recommender really, you know, puts together and illuminates everything that they did. So it’s fascinating.

Anna Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. Some academic letters, you know, really, the diligence of students… 

(cell phone rings)

Katherine Scannell: Sorry about that.

Anna Donovan: It happens. You’re an important person. You’re a vice dean now. And people are trying to get a hold of you and they don’t know that you’re about to be really famous on our podcast. All good. 

Katherine Scannell: So during interviews, remember to turn off your phone. 

Anna Donovan: Maybe one hot tip takeaway today is turn off your phone.

Yeah, in my interviews, I tell people how much I love reading their letters of recommendation. We learn so many more layers about the applicant themselves, how, you know, they sought out advisors at school for their thesis, how they stepped into leadership roles, they came up with, you know, creative problem solving at work or in internships, and really, I think, you know, points to how great of a student they’re going to be. You know, law school is really tough. It’s academically rigorous. You know, you’re also combining that with finding a job and thinking about your career. And so letters of recommendation are a really, really great place to start. And Katie, do you want to kind of touch on then why, you know, as we’re doing this first episode about application materials on LORs, why someone might want to think about them first?

Katherine Scannell: Sure. I’m curious, though, how many years have the two of you been reading letters of recommendation? I should know this, but…

Anna Donovan: Yeah, well, so we only started doing interviews. seven, eight plus years ago, but you know, probably since I first started, I’m at almost 14 years.

Naomi Stewart: I’m at eight years.

Anna Donovan: …reading, reading those letters of rec. And I can still remember some that I’ve read, even though I definitely do not remember who they belong to at this point.

Katherine Scannell: Wow, you guys have a lot of experience. Yeah, that’s fantastic. So letters of recommendation are important to start with because most of your recommenders are very busy and they need some time to think about what they wanna say about you and get the letter ready and make sure it’s fantastic. You don’t want them to be rushed as they’re writing their letter of recommendation. And so I have been doing this, I’ve been in admissions or at the law school for about, I don’t know, Anna, is it close to about the same time as you, right? 

Anna Donovan:12 years, 15 years, a little less than me, a little more than me.

Katherine Scannell: I practiced law for about 15 years before I came to WashU. And then it’s been so much fun being at WashU and working with students as they start law school, start their careers. But I will say that every letter of recommendation that someone requests from me, I greatly appreciate if I have sufficient time to do it. And that’s at least several weeks. I wanna think about why that person is gonna be so great for law school and what qualities they’re going to bring and what I can share that I know about them personally. So I can make their letter stand out from all of the other letters that… that the admissions offices are reading. So that time is really key.

Anna Donovan: And I know we touched on this, and we’ll probably drive this home a million times, applying early is the best way to set yourself up for success. So when you’re thinking about a September 1st application open, you’re working backwards from that timeline, you know, a couple weeks, a month, two months to give that recommender a heads-up.

Yes. And Katie, how, what can an applicant do to make it really easy for you to write that letter?

Katherine Scannell: Yeah, so when I am asked for a letter of recommendation, I want to have all the information I need right there at my fingertips. So when you’re making that request, make sure that you have, maybe if you’ve worked for the person, the dates that you worked for them and some of the things that you accomplished in that job. A lot of your recommenders are going to be academic, so those are professors, and you want to be sure that you remind them which classes you’ve been in, some of the things you worked with them on, maybe some of the things you’ve spoken to them about or that they helped you with, or anything to make it personal to you. You don’t want them to have to go back to their recommender template and kind of plug in stuff that could apply to a whole lot of people. You want it to come across that they know you and know you well. So any of that type of information that you can put in the original request is greatly appreciated by the recommender.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. And so, Katie, how do you choose who to ask? And then we said asking early is the best way. What are some other ways to make that ask?

Katherine Scannell: So, I like an ask that comes in an email that has all of that information with it, so I can go back to one place as I’m sitting and thinking about how to write that letter. You can think about who to ask. Some applicants have a tendency to want to ask the most high-profile person they know to make their recommendation. And that’s fantastic if that person knows you well, but if that person does not know you well, I would definitely prioritize recommenders who do know you well. 

Anna Donovan: We can tell when that is happening. We can tell in the letter how well that person knows you. 

Katherine Scannell: So that’s something to think about as well. And typically, you’re going to want some academic recommenders and maybe one professional recommender. It really depends on where you are in your career, if you’re just coming from undergraduate or from a graduate degree. You know, your recommenders are going to be a little more heavily weighted on academic. And if you have been in the workforce for a while, your recommenders are more likely going to be professional recommenders. So it’s a little bit different for each person.

Naomi Stewart: Yeah, it’s definitely not cut and dry. Don’t try and fit yourself in a box. Something we try to mention is really the schools you’re looking at applying to, looking at what they are asking, what they are requiring, how many letters, and they may be stipulating who they are hoping to have those from and trying to adhere to that.

Katie, what if you put all this time and effort into this email, you’re attaching your resume, you’re outlining how this person knows you, how great you are, and they say no or they don’t respond to you?

Katherine Scannell: So if they don’t respond, I think you can kind of ping them and say, hey, you know, just wondering if you would be willing, because they do get busy and I would not take it personally. If they say no, it’s because it may just be because they’re uncomfortable writing the letter, but just move on. I’m sure there are a number of people who could write letters for you and you can kind of just go through your list and move on to another person. In fact, it doesn’t hurt to ask more people than you need at the outset, right? We are not going to think it’s a bad thing if we happen to get four letters of recommendation instead of three for you. So you can ask, you know, maybe one or two more people than you think you need when you first make those requests.

Naomi Stewart: Absolutely. And so I’m a planner myself, so I would definitely want to identify my people and then get those letters in motion early so it can go through all of those steps for sure. And so what is maybe a takeaway tip, a fact of the podcast that we should take away? Katie, we’ll start with you.

Katherine Scannell: Make sure that the recommenders know you personally, but you don’t want them to put something crazy in there. So maybe, you know, you want to give them a bit of a framework for that letter, and personal is good, but too personal can take you the wrong direction. Have you guys seen anything too personal in a letter of recommendation?

Naomi Stewart: You know, I do think I’ve seen like a letter from a family friend or even a family member, yikes, that isn’t, wasn’t maybe the best choice to go to, you know, maybe the person didn’t have, you know, have great direction on who they should ask and they’re like, this person knows me really well, and that’s, you know, it’s definitely not a break it part of your application, but it’s, it’s not great. 

Katherine Scannell: Maybe they refer to high school a lot in the letter of recommendation.

Naomi Stewart: Right, yeah, they knew you a long time ago. Maybe you’ve kept in touch, you know, bringing it back to present day. Current, I think current is, is probably gonna be my tip thinking about, are you still in school or, you know, who you’re working with now. It’s both, you know, not necessarily feeling like you have to reach back to seven years ago in college and finding a professor that may or may not remember you, but who, you know, who knows you really well, who can speak to your strengths and really ultimately what’s going to tell the admissions committee how great of a law student you’re gonna be.

Anna Donovan: Yeah. And that brings it to, to my tip that we’ve talked about in that, that would be, you know, like Katie said, putting a framework together, the, the years you worked for someone in classes they took, and then also the purpose of the letter. Maybe the person is used to writing letters of recommendation, or maybe this is their first one. Helping them know the audience is going to be reading this and the purpose of, of writing that letter can maybe curtail any sort of wild stories that could end up in those.

I am recommending this person for med school!

Nope, wrong, wrong program there.

Anna Donovan: We have seen those.

Anna Donovan: We’ve seen those. I’ve seen those. So yeah, giving them that information. That’s so So great. You know, take those tips. We will continue on with the podcast and go through other parts of the application process. But thank you so much, Katie, for joining us and providing your invaluable insights. We hope to have you back sometime.

Katherine Scannell: Thank you for having me. This was so fun, and I look forward to being a guest again.

Naomi Stewart: Excellent. Thank you.