Franklin Opt Experience

Jim Reeves: All right — well, welcome, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Navigating Grad Law, the ongoing podcast series of the Graduate and International Studies Program at WashU Law in St. Louis. Today we have a special guest — an alum of our LLM program in the Graduate and International Studies program, who will be talking about his experiences with Optional Practical Training, or OPT.

We thought this would be a great segment. We get a lot of questions in the Grad Law department about OPT — who’s eligible, how does this work, what kinds of jobs can you take, what kinds of jobs are you not eligible for. So this segment is designed to answer a lot of those questions.

I want to welcome to our conversation today Mr. Franklin Okoro. He is from Nigeria, and is a lawyer in Nigeria. He came to the United States to study U.S. law, and we’ll have Franklin talk a little bit more about his background. Franklin — welcome to the podcast today.

Franklin Okoro: Thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure speaking to you. I remember the first time I met you — you were my attorney advisor, and that was wonderful. Thank you so much. It’s wonderful to be back.

Jim Reeves: Well, it’s wonderful to see you again. I really enjoyed working with you. Just for those of you who might not be aware: in the Graduate and International Studies program, we have a course called United States Law and Methods. That class includes attorney advisors who meet one-on-one with students. Franklin was one of our students and one of my advisees in that program. It really has been a pleasure to both work with you then and see you today. Thank you for being here.

Franklin Okoro: Thank you. Thank you so much. That’s my pleasure.

Jim Reeves: So, Franklin — we’re talking about this OPT, or Optional Practical Training. I understand that you are engaged in employment through that program. When did you graduate with your LLM at Washington University?

Franklin Okoro: Oh, yeah — I graduated in the spring. I think the 24th of May, precisely. That was my graduation. Yes.

Jim Reeves: Okay. And that was spring of 2025?

Franklin Okoro: Yes.

Jim Reeves: Okay, fantastic. And you were a one-year LLM?

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a one-year LLM.

Jim Reeves: Fantastic. What was your focus?

Franklin Okoro: International and comparative law. So it’s more like a general LLM, but I have a certificate — more like a specialization or concentration in international and comparative law.

Jim Reeves: And was there some time in the semesters — the two semesters that you spent at WashU Law — that you thought, “Ooh, I’d like to try out, I want to know more about OPT”? How did you explore that? Or did you know about that option before you came to Washington University?

Franklin Okoro: Yes, the answer is yes. I wish I could say I was new to the entire system, but I would only say that I’ve followed America for a very long time. So just coming to the U.S., one of the things that’s completely inescapable for an international student in America is the fact that you’re automatically aware of OPT.

I think the first official introduction to OPT was during the international student orientation. During the international student orientation, OISS — the Office of International Students and Scholars — introduced the concept of OPT to us. They basically told us what OPT was about, when we would be eligible to apply, and every single thing about the program. So yeah — that was my official introduction to the OPT process.

Jim Reeves: Okay, wonderful. So that would have been the orientation process when you first got on campus. This would have been the summer or beginning of the fall semester in what would have been 2024. And OISS gave you, as part of the orientation program, some information about OPT.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, yeah, yeah — they did a great job. OISS did a great job in just letting us know what OPT was all about, what it entails, and everything. Like I said, that was my first introduction to the concept of OPT and the program in general.

So during orientation — basically slightly before the beginning of classes, so early fall, I think the first week of August, if I’m not mistaken — that was when we were introduced to the concept of OPT. I think it’s wonderful that it was really explained in clear terms during orientation.

Jim Reeves: Fantastic. So you began classes — and did you begin exploring OPT options right away, or how did that work for you?

Franklin Okoro: Okay, yeah — it’s so interesting. I remember clearly, I started classes like everyone else, you know, new to the U.S. legal system in general. But OPT — I started thinking about OPT actively during the spring semester. That is, the second semester. Because that was when, among us as international students, the question is: what are you going to do next?

For those international students who are not planning on staying back in the U.S., they don’t really care about OPT. But for those who really care about OPT, they will start navigating: what do we do next, how do we apply for OPT, what are the guidelines, what documents do we need, what do we need not to do, what do we need to do — all of those questions.

So it was during the second semester, that is the spring semester, that I started actively thinking about OPT and making research about how to apply.

Jim Reeves: There were a lot of questions that you had going through your mind as you explored this topic. So where did you go for answers? How did you get the information that you needed?

Franklin Okoro: Okay — I got my answers, particularly on the USCIS website. The USCIS website is basically a U.S. government website on immigration that talks about OPT, citizenship, green card — every single thing about U.S. immigration is on the USCIS website.

If you have any questions, if you’re confused about anything, I would really suggest you go to the USCIS website. It’s very detailed. So yeah, I went to the USCIS website for OPT.

Outside of that — like I would always tell potential applicants — the WashU OISS is incredible. When I say they’re incredible, I mean in terms of giving out information generally. Whenever they’re sending out emails, these emails are so detailed. When they sent out the emails on OPT, they had a lot of links — that you could click if you have any questions about OPT — and you could just explore those resources, and you get answers. As always, you’re not alone. If you feel lost, you could just reach out to your student advisor.

Jim Reeves: Fantastic.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, yeah.

Jim Reeves: That’s great. So you did some exploration and you thought, “Okay, this is an avenue I want to pursue while I’m at WashU.” What were some of the next steps? You’ve gathered the information — walk us through what that process was in terms of moving toward a position with OPT.

Franklin Okoro: Okay — first of all, I remembered that one of the first things you have to do in terms of OPT is the fact that you have to apply early. The same thing applies to everything — even applying to grad school — early application is important.

So what I did immediately was start putting up my application. I went to the USCIS website. I went to the portal for OPT. I started filling out my OPT application.

The moment I was done filling out the application, as part of the application, you have to send your application to the office, to your student advisor. That is, the international student advisor. For our listeners, every student is assigned an OISS student advisor based on your program. Whenever you are admitted as an international student, you are assigned an international student advisor.

Your international student advisor is responsible for — part of the things they do include — making sure that, if you have any questions about immigration, OPT included, you can reach out to them and they’ll be more than happy to answer your questions. So I reached out to my own assigned international student advisor and said, “I’m applying for OPT.” And she was, I mean, fantastic.

She put me through the process. She signed a particular form. Two people are responsible for signing: my student advisor and the Dean of the graduate international program. In my case, since I was in the law school, I sent it to Jeanne. Jeanne got it and Jeanne signed her part of the form.

Jim Reeves: Jeanne Heil-Chapdelaine.

Franklin Okoro: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So she signed her part, my OISS supervisor signed hers, and I forwarded it to USCIS. I just clicked submit, and I got my card in two weeks. It was approved in, let’s say, 10 days, and the card arrived four days after it was approved.

Jim Reeves: And the card you’re describing — what is that?

Franklin Okoro: Okay — the card is basically a document, but it’s like an ID. It’s like an identification card. It’s a small piece of plastic. Yeah. It’s good, actually.

The card basically is a work authorization. For our listeners, I think it’s important for me to clarify — to break down the concept of OPT. OPT is Optional Practical Training. It’s basically a work authorization. It is a program that allows international students who are on F-1 visas to work in the U.S.

You are eligible to apply upon completion of your program in the U.S., so you must have had the program going on in the U.S. However, it’s equally important to say that there are certain exceptions. There are certain programs that do not qualify you for OPT. According to USCIS guidelines, if you’re in an English language program, you are not eligible for OPT. But every other thing, to the best of my knowledge, you’re eligible for OPT. For the LLM, you’re eligible for OPT.

Basically, the moment you’re done with your program, or towards the end of your program, you can apply for OPT. This OPT gives you access — gives you permission — to work in the U.S. The work authorization, like the name implies, is for you to work in the U.S. for one year. You are allowed to work in the U.S. for one year. Like the name implies — Optional Practical Training — it’s an opportunity for you to actually get into the market and practice what you’ve learned.

Jim Reeves: Beautiful. So when you first started this process, you went on the USCIS website. You also worked with OISS.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah.

Jim Reeves: And you already had a student advisor — an advisor that you were working with.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah.

Jim Reeves: They helped you through this process. The first piece was to apply for and get the F-1 visa.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah.

Jim Reeves: And then that opened the door. Then you became eligible to do OPT at that point.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. So the F-1 is a visa. The F-1 grants you legal access to the U.S. The moment you get accepted into the LLM program, in this case, you apply for what we call an I-20 — a Form I-20.

The moment you get the I-20 — which is issued by OISS, working in collaboration with the Graduate International Programs — you apply for an F-1 visa, which is a student visa. Depending on the country you are in, in most countries you have to go for an in-person interview. I think the majority of countries require an in-person interview.

I’m from Nigeria. I went for an in-person interview. If you are interviewed and the consular officer thinks that, you know, it’s fine, they approve your visa. The visa gives you access into the U.S. When you arrive in the U.S., you start your program. Towards the end of your program, like I said earlier, if you decide that, “Oh, I think I want to stay back for one year” — the OPT program is a program that allows you to stay one extra year after graduation. So yeah, that’s exactly what it is.

Jim Reeves: Good. I wanted to go through that, because there are a lot of moving pieces, and it can sound complicated. But you had an advisor you were working with. You had somebody helping you along the way. You had to do some exploration on your own, but you also had guidance along the way too. So what sounds like a very complicated process is, you know — it’s streamlined. The key is to start early.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, absolutely. The key is to start early. One of the reasons the key is to start early is because there can be a backlog. America is a country of laws. You have a 30-day window. The 30-day window — I’ll always, for our listeners, try to break this down.

Towards the end of your program — three months towards the end of your program — OISS basically sends an email. That email is informing you that you are eligible to apply for OPT at this point.

So within 30 days — the 30-day window is basically: you should apply now, so you can get approved early. If you apply outside the 30-day window, it doesn’t get rejected, but it places you in a bad spot. Because you have 90 days after graduation to stay in the country to seek employment. It’s called the 90-day unemployment period.

Within 90 days of graduation, you can seek employment, get employment. If you don’t get employment within 90 days, unfortunately, you have to leave the U.S. So if you don’t apply early and get your OPT, you can’t even seek employment within those 90 days, because the OPT is your access to seeking employment.

That’s the reason why I really advocate for starting early. Start early, get the OPT card, because, like I said, you have 90 days of unemployment.

Jim Reeves: So you had all the groundwork laid. You had your visa. You were ready to go. Then came graduation in May of 2025.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah.

Jim Reeves: And that is when that 90-day window begins. But you want to apply within that first 30 days.

Franklin Okoro: Yes — I applied earlier. I applied, I think, a week or two before graduation. As soon as I got the email from OISS saying, “Hey, you can apply now,” I think I applied immediately. So I applied before graduation. A couple of days after graduation, I got my card — the work authorization card. That is the OPT card.

So yeah — you apply early, you get the card, so you don’t get caught up in the 90-day unemployment period. It is interesting too that one of the things LLM students basically do is they use the 90-day unemployment period to study for and sit for the bar. They take the bar either in July or in February.

Jim Reeves: So up until this point, Franklin, I think we’re talking about just becoming eligible for and getting involved with OPT. You graduate, and then the fun part starts, right?

Franklin Okoro: Absolutely.

Jim Reeves: Then you’ve got to find work.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, you have to find a job. Of course, you need to find a job.

Jim Reeves: Tell us about that avenue for you.

Franklin Okoro: It’s very interesting and slightly emotional talking about this journey in many ways for me. There’s a sense in which, when I talk about WashU in general, some people are like, “I think you’re just talking about WashU too much” — but there’s this sense in which I really love WashU in many ways.

When I say I really love WashU, it’s beyond just saying I love WashU. It’s the fact that even with the process of finding a job and navigating all of these things, WashU provides a community that is there for you in many ways. As an LLM student — from the Office of OISS down to even finding a job — WashU was instrumental for me in certain ways. But this is my personal journey.

So let’s go back to the question. Is your question how I got the job, or getting the job and how it has been for me?

Jim Reeves: Yes — so I want to know. You had to look for work. You were now eligible. You had 90 days. And you ultimately did get work. Tell us what kind of work you’re doing, and then we’ll go back and find out how you got there.

Franklin Okoro: Okay — so basically, like I earlier established, I got my card before graduation, or a few days after graduation. And I started applying for jobs. I got a job, and I currently work in the 22nd Judicial Circuit in the Probate Department, or the Probate Division.

Jim Reeves: Which is the City of St. Louis, Missouri.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — the City of St. Louis courts. I work there right now in the Probate Division. Part of my job includes — I’m involved in what we call determination of heirship. Basically, when a person dies — administration of estates in general.

I’m involved in administration of estates, issuance of what we call letters. A person dies, and they have creditors, people are trying to get money in the bank accounts. Family members are trying to get money in the bank accounts. So I’m going to try my best to explain this in lay terms, basically, and not use legal terms.

Jim Reeves: So at this point, you’re working in the probate court, and your work involves administration of estates of decedents — people who have died, right? You’re talking about the administration of letters, which gives people, typically attorneys, authorization to manage the estate, and you work with them primarily. So tell us more.

Franklin Okoro: Okay, yes. I am largely involved with management of estates in general — decedents’ estates in general. I work closely with attorneys for issuance of these particular letters. The letters —

Jim Reeves: Letters of administration.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — letters of administration, determination of heirship, trying to find out who gets what when a person dies in testate or intestate, administration of wills in general. I’m largely responsible for admitting wills. When people come in to deposit wills or trusts. I’m equally involved in what we call involuntary detainments — that is, the mental health part of it.

Jim Reeves: Involuntary detainment?

Franklin Okoro: Yes, yes — that’s what we call Mental Health Act Detention. Mental Health Act Detention is basically when people pose a risk to themselves or to others, and temporarily — it’s more like a temporary detainment to make sure that people don’t hurt others or harm themselves. People close to them could approach the courts, seeking an order — a transport warrant, basically — to get them to a mental facility so they can get help.

So I’m equally in charge of making sure the paperwork for all of those is completely sorted out, as well as a lot of other things here.

Jim Reeves: So you would handle those kinds of cases where, say, for example — we were talking earlier — I have a roommate who is really not doing well mentally, and they’re really becoming a risk to themselves and to others. So I might come to the courts, ask for help, and maybe it is a case where that person needs to be confined for a period of time, involuntarily put in a facility to make sure that they’re safe. You would manage and work with people in those kinds of cases.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — I get those applications a lot. Every single day, we get a lot of applications for what we call Involuntary Mental Health Act Detention. Basically, they walk to the courts, and they say, “This person — my roommate, in this scenario — poses a risk to himself and probably to me. He may harm me. He has a mental condition.”

The courts will assess the merits of the application, because you have to fill out paperwork. Based on what you fill out, I go through the paperwork to find out — and part of the things I do is to check if this person has a prior history of this particular mental condition, because everything is documented. If the person does not, you have to bring a second person to fill out an affidavit to attest to the fact that this person does have this particular condition.

It is important for me to state at this point that the bulk of this work on mental health is handled by agencies — social workers, basically. So typically, individuals are not the ones bringing these cases. Individuals are allowed; individuals do come in. But it’s largely handled by social workers, because if they think this person needs help, they come to the court. Based on the merit of the application, if it’s granted by the commissioner, we send the order to the sheriff’s department, and the sheriff’s department picks them up and puts them in the facility where they need help.

Jim Reeves: It really is fascinating, isn’t it? I have to tell you — I’ve learned a lot through this conversation. I’ve never been a probate attorney, and I’m fascinated by the work that you’re doing.

Franklin Okoro: Thank you.

Jim Reeves: And what I’m also hearing, Franklin, is this is not just busy work. You are really working as part of the court, doing a vital function in terms of screening these cases, making sure that these files are correct, so when they get in front of a judge, a determination can be made. And these are not cases that can linger around for years. These are cases that have to move along through the courts very quickly, I think.

Franklin Okoro: Absolutely.

Jim Reeves: Okay.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — like you said, these are cases that are decided immediately, because the key ingredient for establishing whether or not this order would be granted is whether this person poses a risk to themselves or to others. Given that, the expression alone implies that it’s an immediate order — an immediate application — so the courts treat it with so much urgency.

When people come in for a 96-hour, I am administratively compelled to leave whatever I’m doing and make sure that we determine the substance of that application — because you don’t want a situation where someone harms themselves or harms others. So yeah, it is very technical. I am learning a lot of things — these are things that, even as a practicing attorney in Nigeria, I never knew about.

My job in probate right now is exposing me to this area of law — probate — and how this area of law is very important, and the technicalities surrounding it. It’s such a rewarding experience.

Jim Reeves: Yes, you’re helping people in very difficult times of their lives. Let me ask you, Franklin — I know we talked a little bit about how you were able to get this work, and it was quite a process. Looking for work for anybody is a long and sometimes frustrating process. I know that you had applied for a lot of different positions for OPT and, you know — denied, denied, denied.

Franklin Okoro: Absolutely.

Jim Reeves: That’s part of the market — rejections. So what do you think the secret was for you in getting this position with the courts? What was it about this?

Franklin Okoro: Okay — so I graduated as a student speaker, which is one of the best things that has ever happened to me. I remember that morning when I got the email that I was selected as the graduation speaker for the Graduate and International Programs. I was really moved by it, because a lot of things happened to me during the course of the program. I lost my dad during the course of the program.

Jim Reeves: Sorry — I didn’t know.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — thank you. Part of losing my dad is one of the reasons — that’s when I realized how empowering and how wonderful the WashU community is, because WashU really was there for me in many ways.

So back to the question: the moment I graduated, I started applying for jobs. Like we said, a bunch of rejections every single day — wake up to rejections. Again, it’s part of the process.

The moment I was done giving the speech on graduation, I had this young man walk up to me and he was like, “I love your speech. It was moving. It was inspiring.”

We connected on LinkedIn, and we were just talking on LinkedIn. I told him — I think this is what is important — he is a WashU alum. He graduated from WashU too, from the law school. I think he works for Husch Blackwell now.

Jim Reeves: Yeah — the law firm.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, the law firm Husch Blackwell, which is one of St. Louis’s leading law firms. I reached out to him, and he was like, “That’s wonderful. What kind of job?” I told him, “I really want to work in the courts, because I’ve always been thrilled by public service in general.”

My father, before he died, was a professor. So I’ve generally been that person who is so interested in public interest in general. I practiced in public interest before coming to the U.S. So I said something about the courts, basically, and he was able to help — speak to this judge who needed someone to work in the Office of Legal Counsel, basically, more like a senior clerk. I went online, filled in the application, was interviewed by the commissioner herself, and on the spot I was given the job.

Speaking of OPT — luckily, I already had my OPT card, so I think the next week I resumed my new position.

Jim Reeves: Fantastic — and congratulations.

Franklin Okoro: Thank you so much.

Jim Reeves: And a key there was — you knew that if you were going to find work, it was going to be ultimately up to you.

Franklin Okoro: Absolutely.

Jim Reeves: And one of those things that helped you was to make a connection.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah.

Jim Reeves: And in this case, it happened to be WashU Law.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, yeah.

Jim Reeves: I think that’s fantastic, Franklin. So — is there anything else that you’d like to tell our listeners regarding OPT?

Franklin Okoro: Yeah — I think there’s certain important information our listeners should know about OPT. There are three things.

One — I would like to let our listeners know the categories of F-1 students that are not eligible for OPT, because I think it is important for people to know this. The fact that you’re an F-1 student and you’ve graduated does not automatically make you qualify for OPT. There are certain exceptions to this rule.

The first one is what we call CPT — Curricular Practical Training. If you’ve had up to 12 months full-time CPT, you are not eligible for OPT. However, if your CPT was part-time, you qualify for OPT. But if you’ve had full-time, up to 12-month CPT while you were an F-1 student, you do not qualify for OPT.

Another category of students who don’t qualify for OPT: if you’ve had a prior OPT at the same degree level, you don’t qualify for OPT again. For example, an LLM is a master’s program. If you’ve had a master’s program in, say, George Washington University where you studied public policy, and you’ve had OPT, and you come to WashU for an LLM, you don’t get to have another OPT. Or if you already have a PhD from a U.S. university and you’ve had an OPT, and you decide you want to get a master’s, you’re not eligible for an OPT.

However, if you did your undergrad in America — after your undergrad you get an OPT, and you decide to go for an LLM — you are eligible for an OPT, because there is a change in the level of degree program. One’s an undergrad, one’s a master’s. Then if you decide to go for a PhD, you get an OPT. So concurrent programs at the same level — like two master’s, or two undergrads — you don’t get an OPT.

So yeah — if you get an LLM, which is a master’s degree, you get an OPT. If after an LLM, like me, you decide that you want to get a JD — which is a Juris Doctor, which is considered equivalent to a doctoral-level degree for OPT purposes — you get an OPT, because the JD qualifies as a higher-level degree than the LLM.

[⚠️ Note: please verify this claim against current USCIS guidance — the JD/PhD equivalence framing is not technically accurate and the rule is more nuanced.]

These are certain things I think people should know about the OPT process in general.

Jim Reeves: And that’s something that someone would want to explore right at the beginning of this process — working with the USCIS website and also with the folks at the Office of International Students and Scholars at Washington University, OISS.

Franklin Okoro: Yes.

Jim Reeves: They would be able to explain all those rules and eligibility.

Franklin Okoro: Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, you can decide to make your own private research on all of this process. The Office of International Students and Scholars — OISS — has a ton of resources, in terms of documents that explain every single thing, every detail, every frequently asked question. And you can always reach out to your OISS student advisor. Like I said, every student is assigned a particular advisor.

You can always reach out to your advisor in this process, and your advisor will be more than willing — more than happy — to guide you with the OPT application.

The third thing would be — I think I mentioned it earlier in this podcast — that there are certain programs that do not make you eligible for OPT, and part of that is the English language program. If you graduate from an English language program or certificate, you are not eligible for OPT. Some schools offer certificate programs; some schools offer it as a degree program. Either way, you are not eligible for OPT.

So yeah — those are the three categories of F-1 students that do not qualify for OPT.

Jim Reeves: Franklin — it has been an absolute pleasure to see you again, talk with you again. My congratulations to you on so many levels — your graduation and position. I can tell through our conversation that you’re learning a lot and enjoying the work with the courts. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you today and for your time today.

Franklin Okoro: It’s always my pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.