Career and Experience: Juan del Valle

Juan Del Valle: Hello, everybody. My name is Juan Del Valle. I am the Director of International Programs and a lecturer in the law school for a little bit more than seven years. I had the opportunity of being a student here in our LLM for International Attorneys program back in 2009, graduated in 2010. I came originally from Colombia, where I was an attorney, and decided to pursue my master’s degree in law here to learn more about the common law system, mostly about the U.S. legal system, and hopefully open some professional doors to work in international organizations and in U.S. law firms.

Jim Reeves: Hi, I’m Jim Reeves. I’m a lecturer in law at Washington University School of Law. I’ve been teaching at Washington University since 2005. Before I came to Washington University, I taught at another university’s law school. Prior to that, I was a litigation attorney for 20 years. Like a lot of our faculty in the NDR program — the Negotiation and Dispute Resolution program — we bring a lot of practice and experience to the classroom, as well as theory. Looking forward to talking with all of you about our wonderful programs.

So let me welcome Professor Juan Del Valle. Professor Del Valle brings to Washington University a really remarkable history and experience — as well as his experience not only as a professor, but also as a student at Washington University Law School in the LLM program. How are you today?

Juan Del Valle: Doing great. Always happy to be part of this amazing institution — not only the whole university, which is amazing, but also our law school. As you said, having had the pleasure of starting as a student back in 2009, graduating in 2010 from that LLM program, and now being able to teach here. Fantastic.

Jim Reeves: That’s why we wanted to talk with you about this — because you bring a remarkable and full experience professionally. You’ve played a lot of roles in your professional career — everything from lawyer to student to professor. What an interesting list. Tell us a little bit about your professional background, starting with your original law school experience and your professional experience as an attorney.

Juan Del Valle: Okay. Yeah — I’ll even go one step back. When I was in high school, I wanted to be a chef, but my dad laughed at me and said, “You’re not going to do that. You need to do something for real.” And I was like, “Well, I want to do that.” So I ended up enrolling in the law program at Universidad del Rosario in Bogotá, Colombia — one of the top institutions, definitely. I have to tell you that when I finished my law courses, I studied to be a chef, and I did one year of international cuisines. I was not going to leave that there. But anyway — that was how it all started.

During my law school years back in Colombia, I had the opportunity of working for Baker & McKenzie within the tax law department. I then worked for another law firm, Rincón Abogados, where I was mainly within commercial and corporate law for a little while.

Jim Reeves: Was that in Bogotá?

Juan Del Valle: Also in Bogotá. Also in Bogotá. Then afterwards, I had the opportunity of coming here to study my LLM degree at WashU. I chose one concentration that is called the LLM in U.S. Law, because I was not really sure about what I was going to do afterwards, but I had one thing for sure — I wanted to either work here in the United States or work in an organization where having a deep knowledge about the U.S. legal system was going to be important.

Jim Reeves: And Juan, I’m curious — at some point, you’re working in the tax department, you’re working as an attorney, your career is going. But at some point, you made a decision to get an LLM. What was it that caused you to do that? And then the follow-up question I’ll give you right now: why Washington University, in the United States?

Juan Del Valle: Okay. Well — growing up in Latin America and being part of the legal profession in Latin America, we understand the importance of pushing ourselves into acquiring more titles after graduation. It is not enough in Latin America to graduate as a lawyer. You need to go and pursue, hopefully, a master’s — maybe a couple — and that will have a heavy impact on the doors that are going to be opening for you professionally. So there was no question that I wanted to study a master’s. As a matter of fact, I started one in my local university — a master’s in commercial law, which I was fully scholarshipped for, because I got one of the top government exam scores.

But then I had the amazing opportunity — and it was actually thanks to my father. My father said, “I think it’s time for you to study abroad. Why don’t you start applying if you want to?” And yeah — definitely. I sent applications, not only to universities in the United States, but also a couple in Canada. To answer your second question: the first reason I came to WashU was that I was admitted.

Jim Reeves: That’s important.

Juan Del Valle: That is important.

Jim Reeves: That’s a good step, yes.

Juan Del Valle: But I was also admitted to other law schools, and I checked several things. I checked ranking, of course — that was important. I checked location. Location was really important. One thing I really was focused on back then was being focused in my studies. Even though I did apply to law schools that could have been located in what I thought would be more of a party scenario, I definitely wanted to be able to study in a city that had everything I was looking for — that would really give me an American experience, because that was one of my goals too — and at the same time allow me to focus on my studies.

Another important issue: I received a merit scholarship for part of the tuition as an international student back then. That was also super important, because coming from Colombia and making the currency conversion from Colombian pesos to U.S. dollars, it’s always going to be challenging. So any help that a law school is willing to give you as an international student via scholarship is something we are going to be thankful for as students.

Jim Reeves: So, you make the change. You’re admitted to Washington University in St. Louis, and you move from attorney to student. That’s quite a transition — not to mention all of the other transitions you’ve mentioned. You’re now coming to the United States. You’re originally from South America. You come to the United States — a completely different culture. Talk a little bit about that adjustment. How did that work for you? How did you deal with that?

Juan Del Valle: Well, I have to say — it was challenging. It’s not easy. On a side note, that is something I focus on nowadays whenever I advise international students who are thinking about applying to an LLM program in the United States. I’ve been there. I’ve been in their shoes. I know how difficult it is to make a decision that is not only a large investment in money — it’s also a large investment in time, in effort, and, in some cultures, including mine, it was the first time I was actually leaving my family behind. So that was tough. It was a big step, and I had to mentally prepare for it — but I did it. I’m glad that I was able to do it, because one of the things I found here at WashU was that the international programs department was highly helpful with us as international students.

So we were nervous about so many different things, but we felt so much at home. They helped me a lot. I think the transition, again, was complicated. One of the biggest challenges, definitely, was content-wise — and that is, I came from a civil law system and I was moving into a common law system, and I was moving also into a different teaching style. Whenever we come from civil law systems, we are used to having this lecture-based methodology in which the professor tends to talk a lot. The professor goes on, and we take notes, and then learn those and pass exams. Then I was moving into the Socratic method, in which you are supposed to be the one prepared, and the professor is prepared too — to ask questions.

Jim Reeves: Which, by the way, for any law student — domestic or international — is a huge adjustment. So here you are, you’re in the classroom now, and now you’re being asked questions and expected to respond.

Juan Del Valle: That was challenging. I have to say that was a big adjustment. Now, another big challenge was definitely language-wise. Coming from South America, my native language is Spanish. Yes, I was fortunate enough that I studied in a bilingual high school, so I knew how to speak English, how to read and how to write. But the challenge — whenever you come and start reading cases, cases that have been written sometimes centuries ago, and for some reason these judges like using very convoluted and complicated language — it was challenging trying to read those cases at a good pace, trying to analyze and abstract and obtain all that useful information from each case.

I think that one of the things that helped me a lot was that, back then in 2009, that summer just before I started my program, I took the ILEP — the Intensive Legal English Program — offered by the law school, which gave us a lot of tools, all of us international students. A lot of tools that were then super useful, not only during the LLM program, but also afterwards in my professional experience.

Jim Reeves: Many of the great features of Washington University — the ILEP program is one of those, because it really does give an opportunity for students to speak English. There again, that’s one of those opportunities you took advantage of in helping you to adjust.

Juan Del Valle: Yeah — I think that program helped me in several ways, not only because of the information I was acquiring (how to read a case, how to brief a case — we even had a mock trial, that was important), but at the same time, using that month in the summer before starting the LLM program to adjust to WashU, to the teaching methodology, to the city. I think that was a really good opportunity, because once I started my LLM program, I was already adjusted, and I think it would have been much more difficult to go through that adjustment afterwards, during class.

Jim Reeves: During class, yeah. You have enough going on at that point. But you had a little bit of a runway. You had a chance to adjust to the city, to the school, before you got into the classroom.

Juan Del Valle: Yes, yes, definitely.

Jim Reeves: So — you went through the LLM program. Talk a little bit about the courses you took. And then what’s remarkable also about your story is that after your graduation, you came back to Washington University in an entirely different capacity.

Juan Del Valle: Well — when you ask me about courses, I cannot help thinking about my first course, Introduction to U.S. Law and Methods. Funny thing — my two professors for that course back in 2009 were Professor Koby and Professor Greenhaw. Professor Koby is currently the Associate Dean for International Programs — my boss, our boss. So it was amazing. I always remember that.

But let me go back to the course selection. One of the things that was really interesting when I decided to come to WashU was the fact that I had a very large list of courses to choose from. That was something I was not expecting, because the format of master’s degree programs in Latin America is normally a pre-established format in which they will tell you, “First semester, these courses; second semester, these courses.” Maybe they’ll give you two or three electives, but that’s it. So I was not really expecting coming in and being asked the question, “Okay, what do you want to take?” — and having such a huge selection to choose from.

Jim Reeves: Exactly.

Juan Del Valle: Since I was so interested in so many diverse and different fields within the legal world, I took advantage of it. So I would take, of course, contracts, intro, corporations — I used to work in corporate law, so that was important for me — but I also wanted to take highly practical courses. I remember taking a drafting course. I took a contracts drafting course, which was amazing. And I was also an international lawyer. So you know what? I took a course called Transnational Litigation and International ADRs.

To make the story short: once I was done with my LLM, I looked back and I said, “Well, you know what? I learned what I wanted to learn.” That’s amazing. Being able to craft your program and make the best possible use of it, due to the fact that we have this amazing possibility of choosing from so many courses — that is something that defined my enjoyment.

But I don’t want to forget the other question that you asked me, right?

Jim Reeves: Right — because there’s the second role we talked about: attorney, student, and then you returned as Director of the Graduate and International Programs, and you’re a professor.

Juan Del Valle: Yes — that was quite a path. After I graduated from the program, one thing that I did during the program was apply for my OPT, which is a one-year permit that we international students can apply for whenever we are in this type of graduate program.

Jim Reeves: And what does OPT stand for?

Juan Del Valle: Optional Practical Training. That is a one-year permit that allows international students to stay one year after graduation and legally work in the field they have studied. The way I did it was here, through the Office of International Students at WashU. I graduated, got my OPT, and I was good to go to be able to work here in the U.S.

I started working for a short while in a local law firm here in St. Louis. It was a law firm whose clients were mostly part of the Hispanic community — but also a law firm that had a bunch of partner law firms throughout Latin America. So I think I was kind of a perfect fit for the law firm at that moment.

Jim Reeves: Sure sounds like it, yes.

Juan Del Valle: Yeah — because, of course, I had just graduated from this LLM in U.S. Law from WashU, plus I had my own experience in the Latin American legal systems. So that was my first job upon graduation. Afterwards, I went back to Colombia, where I opened my own firm. My firm was mostly dedicated to providing services for U.S. parties — U.S. individuals and companies that were entering the Latin American market, let’s say, with a new brand or opening a branch office or opening a corporation in different countries. I did that for a while, until I was hired by Deloitte — Deloitte & Touche. It was a long title, but it was Experienced Senior Counsel and Head of Immigration. I was working with all these…

Jim Reeves: Was that in Latin America? Or was that…

Juan Del Valle: In Latin America, for Deloitte LATCO. Afterwards, I went to Ericsson Telecommunications. Ericsson — a big multinational company. I was the acting legal head for Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, and Colombia. So I would oversee all the legal issues and all the external law firms that would be hired by us for every single legal matter in those countries. That was an amazing experience.

A big part of the story is that throughout all that path, I had fallen in love with negotiations when I was here in my LLM program. And I decided to continue studying negotiations for myself. I was able to go to Harvard on a couple of opportunities, got certified in negotiations and advanced negotiation skills. University of Windsor — another program, run by the State of California — and that was something that I had as a passion.

Now, one interesting thing that happened: working at one of those multinational companies, I identified one of the sources of the biggest problems we had — which was very high litigation costs, and therefore the provisions we had to set aside for a bunch of the countries I oversaw. The main problem was a negotiation problem. It was the way in which our sourcing contracts were being negotiated by the teams that were in charge for this company in Latin America.

So when I brought that issue to the regional CEO, the regional CEO asked me, “Why do you know this?” I said, “Well, because I’ve been studying negotiations all my life, and I’ve been doing all this starting with WashU.” He said, “Why didn’t I know that?” I said, “Well, I don’t know — I didn’t tell anybody.” He said, “What do you want us to do?” I said, “I can teach them what I’ve learned. I can repeat what I’ve learned and teach them — train them the way that I’ve been trained.”

Jim Reeves: This sounds like the beginning of your teaching career.

Juan Del Valle: Yes — it was, actually. So I started training those groups that managed sourcing, but it went kind of viral within the organization, and I ended up training human resources, the legal teams, contract management — in a regional way. That was the start. Then I started teaching, and I felt something I had never felt before. I have to say, when I was training others, when I was teaching, I felt something I had never felt even in any of my previous roles. The opportunities started opening. I started teaching at a Colombian university, Universidad La Sabana. I started teaching for a Brazilian university for a while. I then started teaching for WashU — two courses, and then four courses per year. And then I’m here.

Jim Reeves: You know, we’ve gone into a lot of detail about your background, Juan. Your experience is both unique but also within reach of so many international students. Your history combines such varied experience, and there was also an internal drive, but also that cornerstone from Washington University in St. Louis. It’s really remarkable.

Juan Del Valle: Totally agreed. I have to add only one more thing there: I understood and lived the importance of graduating from WashU — not only because of the content, again. Yes — negotiations, I fell in love with negotiations. I learned transnational litigation. I learned all this. But I saw the impact of telling a potential employer, “I graduated from WashU Law.” It was like, “Really? Wow.” I have to say that was one of the reasons why I was able to succeed.

Jim Reeves: Juan, I have to tell you — it is a real pleasure, and has been a pleasure for the last several years, to be a colleague of yours. You have a remarkable story, and I love that you’re now in a position where you are working with international students from all over the world, bringing them to Washington University, educating them about the opportunities here at this university. I really have enjoyed visiting with you, and appreciate the opportunity. Anything else you’d like to add?

Juan Del Valle: No, no — thank you so much. Again, just always very happy to be able to help others in the same way that I was helped.

Jim Reeves: It’s been a pleasure, Juan. We’ll talk again sometime.

Juan Del Valle: Thank you so much.

Jim Reeves: Thank you, Juan.