Meet the 1Ls!

Anna Donovan:

Welcome back to Applying Yourself, a law school admissions podcast from Washington University School of Law. I’m Anna Donovan, Director of Admissions, and I’m very excited to kick off a new mini-epsode series that’s been in the works since this summer. Over the next few months, we will follow three current WashU Law 1Ls Josh, Hannah, and Nernemsaa, as they share their experiences from the application process through their first year of law school, we will talk about the highs, the challenges, everything in between as they navigate this exciting new chapter.

But first, let’s get to know our students and meet the 1Ls. Josh, let’s start with you and then we’ll go through the group. But if you could tell me you know where you’re from, what you studied in undergrad, and what you did before coming here to WashU Law. 

Josh Sulkin:

Yeah. Hi. My name is Josh. I’m originally from Saint Louis, so. Yay, go Saint Louis, go cards. I studied history when I was in undergrad and before law school. I did teach for America for three years. 

Anna Donovan:

Excellent, Hannah?

Hanna Berry:

Hi, I’m Hannah. I am from Kansas City, so another Missouri native. Though there might be some rivalry. I studied economics in undergrad, and I graduated in 2022. And afterwards, I spent some time living abroad. And then I ran a coffee card business before coming to law school. 

Anna Donovan:

Fantastic, Nernemsaa? 

Nernemsaa Golding:

Hi, my name is Nernemsaa, only one not from Missouri here. I’m from New York, but on the other side. I studied criminal justice in undergrad and before law school I was in the Marine Corps. And also after that, I was a paralegal.

Fantastic. So glad to have you all on our podcast. As I mentioned to our 1Ls, typically, if I have a panel, I don’t make everyone answer all the questions, but here on the podcast, that’s what we’re going to do. So starting up. Growing up, did you picture yourself going to law school? 

Josh Sulkin:

I personally didn’t. I always loved, like, history class. I loved government class. I had just phenomenal teachers growing up, and I felt like I really connected really well, especially with my history teachers. And I really did not know that this was going to be the next step for me. But I think, like, you know, obviously, like I really wanted to do right by people. And, you know, when I joined Teach for America, I originally just wanted to give back, especially to the education system that gave me so much and poured so much like love and generosity into me.

And I really wanted to do that for others. And I, over time, especially with the current administration, I noticed that there were immense inequities in the students that I was serving. Especially my students who had, you know, immigration issues. And I knew that I didn’t know what I could do about it, but I knew that I wanted to feel less powerless, and I wanted to feel like I could do something about it.

And I wanted to get the skills to be able to confront the problems that I had been seeing all around me in the classroom. And I knew that there were so many different causes of that, and I wanted to be part of the solution instead of being limited to my four walls. 

Anna Donovan:

Excellent. 

Hanna Berry:

I always pictured myself going to law school, so since I was very small, I think it started with Judge Judy, which is obviously super unrealistic, but then it just grew from there. I did mock trial throughout high school and coached the team thereafter, and I yeah, I just always knew it was my plan. I took some time off, which I think was really beneficial to me for a number of reasons before applying. But it’s always been my goal, so I’m really happy to be here. 

Anna Donovan:

Amazing. 

Nernemsaa Golding:

That was a really good job, I gotta follow that Well, before growing up, I didn’t know. I didn’t know that I wanted to be a lawyer. My dad is a lawyer. So, like, when I was six years old and I found out what a lawyer was and I was going to be a lawyer. But I guess growing up, it was always something, like, very ethereal and, like, not really tangible in the Marine Corps, honestly, was when it, like really materialized. And I really, like sort of buckled down on the path, you know, started studying for the LSAT, finished the undergrad, started the Masters, and really just hammered out law. And here we are. 

Anna Donovan:

Yeah. Excellent. I know this is reaching back for you all, and hopefully there’s no PTSD, but what did you feel like was the most stressful part of the application cycle?

Josh Sulkin:

For me, it was the fact that I’m not very good at standardized testing. And in fact, I actually delayed applying a year, which I don’t usually talk about. But, I wanted to make sure that I was setting myself up the best that I could for law school. And I knew that, you know, I always hear about, like, the medians and like, and, and all of the things that, like, law schools are looking for and that they, you know, put that against, like your scholarship and admittance and everything.

And so I wanted to wait and study for the LSAT for another year just to make sure that I was ready and that this was something that I still wanted to do. And after, you know, buckling down and studying even harder, I decided, like, you know, I can do this. And I may not be the best test taker, but I have the passion for it.

And, and that’s what is going to carry me through, in addition to, like, the work that it took to get through that process. 

Hanna Berry:

There might be a little bit of PTSD and I’m deeply sorry. I think maybe the most stressful part, I’m actually in a similar boat to you, Josh, I did delay applying a year after, choosing to retake the LSAT and. Yeah, I think just the changing your mind, you know, you have everybody who’s at WashU Law is a super high achiever and is successful in their own ways. But changing your mind and, you know, being able to navigate that was difficult. But I think maybe the most stressful would be the waiting period, right? Sure. You’ve done everything.

You’ve put your best foot forward, and then you just have to sit on your hands and wait and stay off of Reddit. 

Nernemsaa Golding:

Yes, to anyone applying to law school. Just save yourself the headache. Don’t go to read it 100%. The most stressful part of the application cycle for me was probably the LSAT. I feel like most of my time went to studying for the LSAT.

I did also retake it. Delayed applications, take it as many times as I could to try to get as best good of a score as I could. Undergrad was pretty much set in stone. There’s nothing I can do about that. So it’s all about the LSAT. And so, that for me was probably the most stressful. And after that, just staying off Reddit and finding something else. Occupy your time. 

Anna Donovan:

Yes, 100% my perpetual advice is for everyone to stay off of Reddit. It is. It’s not a fun place. I think it makes everyone feel bad about their position and it adds to the stress. So, if no one’s going to listen to me, they can listen to you all.

Just stay off of Reddit and try to find other things to occupy your time. So, you know, this sort of dovetails into my next question, but what is one thing you swore you wouldn’t do during the cycle but ended up doing anyway?

Josh Sulkin:

I mean, the easiest answer is going on Reddit, but I think that I would take it that I really did not want to take it personally.

Sure, I wanted to distance myself from like tying any acceptances or scholarships or anything like that in tying that to my personal worth, because that, you know, I struggled with imposter syndrome when I was in undergrad. I was surrounded by extremely smart people, just like I am at WashU and I realized, especially over my three years teaching and like seeing kids also struggle with that, that I really did not want to continue feeding into that because it’s a cycle that you really can’t get out of and Reddit just perpetuates it, honestly. 

Anna Donovan:

Yeah, absolutely.

Hanna Berry:

Yeah. This might be a similar answer for all of us. I think, it’s super easy to just downward spiral, you know, to question every decision you ever made, considering, that the waiting period can be so long for some people. You know, from that question, I know I got wrong on the LSAT to, you know, that class, you could you can sink all the way back to that class that I should have done something different in undergrad, right?

But just knowing and being confident that, you know, you put your best foot forward and trying to keep yourself out of that headspace as much as you can. On this side of the table, the online atmosphere is not an adequate representation of my peers here. So just, keeping that at the forefront of your mind and trying to stay in a healthy headspace for yourself.

Nernemsaa Golding:

During the application cycle, honestly, I don’t I don’t know.

Hanna Berry:

That’s okay. We’ve all tried to forget!

Nernemsaa Golding:

Like I can just tell you like what I did. 

Anna Donovan:

Sure!

Nernemsaa Golding:

I mean, I applied broadly. Yeah. So, apply broadly. I feel like that was something that really opened doors for me.

And, if you’re able to, there may be like financial restrictions or considerations geographically, but as broadly as you can apply, apply. And that’s something like I like wanted to do going into the application cycle. And that’s something I did. And I thought that was useful and helpful. 

Anna Donovan:

Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Hopefully you love giving advice to people who might have might be in these shoes as much as I do in my role.

But what advice would you give to someone who is either preparing to apply to law school, or even just considering going to law school?

Josh Sulkin:

You don’t have to know right now. And it can. It can be a process. It can be something where you go back and forth on. But if it’s something that you feel like I believe like you know, that everything happens for a reason. And if you continue to get pulled back to, I just feel like this is the thing that I have to do. Like, that’s how I felt. And I was going to go no matter what. Like I’m going to, you know, like from Legally Blonde! I’m going to pull myself up and I’m going to do it because it’s what I believe is the right thing to do. It’s what I believe is right for me in the moment, and I and I’m secure in that.

And I think kind of. I’m sorry. I know you asked for one thing, but the other thing is to not compare yourself to other people because and that’s, you know, again, where Reddit comes in. But I really wanted to feel like, you know, I was doing all of the right things that I got, like, you know, the acceptances, the scholarships, whatever that, you know, was roughly what other people were getting. But then I had to realize that everybody’s on their own journey. Everybody’s going to get there when they get there, and your goals don’t have to align. And at the end of the day, you want to go to a law school that loves you for who you are, who wants you there, and you shouldn’t have to go to anywhere else that doesn’t see your life. That’s what my mom always said.

Anna Donovan:

Should we bring her on?

Josh Sulkin:

Oh, my God. She could definitely affirm some of the PTSD, but yes!

Hanna Berry:

I think I’m gonna piggyback. I also have kind of two pieces of advice. My first one would be just take your time and your application, take your time after, undergrad. If you think there are things that you want to do. For me, it was, you know, staring down the barrel of student loans. I want to travel first. So I really prioritized that beforehand. And I think, I’m a better person because of it. But I also think, you know, the more experiences you have, the more unique your application would be.

Which kind of goes into my second piece of advice, which is just be authentic. Schools are, you know, not looking for one specific thing. So being yourself throughout your application process, whether that’s an interview, your personal statement, not trying to say what people want to hear about, really just saying what you have to say because nobody else has the same experience as you usually.

Nernemsaa Golding:

Yeah. I also have two things, if that’s okay. First thing, I talked to a lot of lawyers before going to law school and starting the application process. And one thing I’ve heard, which was not something I expected to hear, was I don’t know if they were gatekeeping or what, but it was always like, are you sure?

You know, it’s not too late to, you know, be a doctor, go to medical school. But don’t listen to that. Like if you want to be a lawyer, if you love the law, if you want to do the law for whatever reason you may have, do it. Like don’t let these gatekeepers, or whoever it may be tell you not to do it. Go do it if you love it, if you enjoy it. 

Another thing I really noticed a lot, not in people who I got advice from, but people who were sort of peers, was that they were like almost in a rush to apply. And me as a person, I want to, you know, have as good of an application as possible. I had no problem waiting. So I’m going to give this advice is to say, do not feel like you have to apply with, you know, a bad LSAT score because you have to go to law school right now and you know you can’t wait till next year and take your time. Go travel like Hannah did. You know, go Teach for America like Josh did. 

Like once you start law school, it’s deadlines, deadline deadlines, and then it’s not going to end. Once you become a lawyer, it’s even more deadlines. It’s probably going to be worse. So your life for the next 40 years is just going to be deadlines. I hate to bring it to this, like sort of somber tone, but it’s true.

So like, enjoy your life now, enjoy like that time you have and make the most of it and go do things that you enjoy because, it’s you might not have enough time to do it later. 

Anna Donovan:

Yeah, absolutely. Law school will always be here for when people want to come to it. We in the admissions office all wanted you all here so much, and we’re so glad you chose WashU Law. I put together maybe some. I don’t know if these are fun. Well, let’s go with fun, follow up questions at the end. Introvert? Extrovert or somewhere in between? 

Josh Sulkin:

I am an extroverted introvert.

Anna Donovan:

Okay, so elaborate on that. Yes. So I, you know, I love to be in the middle. 

Josh Sulkin:

But I would say I definitely do recharge, like, by myself with my family, with my partner.

But I definitely do like, love to like, you know, go to all of the events and like, Saint Louis has so many fun things to do. And I’m wearing my Muny shirt now, but I guess podcast people can’t see, unfortunately. So. But yeah, go to the Muny. It’s wonderful. 

Hanna Berry:

Agree. I’m probably in a similar boat somewhere in between. All of my hobbies are kind of like independent hobbies, so out or things like that. But I love to host, so I love to have people over things like that. For me, it’s like about the level of people, you know, I love a small group that’s intimate. Once there’s like more than 4 or 5, I’m like buried in what’s happening.

Nernemsaa Golding:

Yeah, I think I think I’m probably lean towards the introvert side a little bit. I can I definitely like being around people. I do enjoy that, but I just think I just tired a little quickly. 

Hanna Berry:

How are you adjusting to the Midwest? 

Anna Donovan:

Law school takes a lot out of you, you know?

Nernemsaa Golding:

The reading room is nice

Hanna Berry:

Nice. The silent room is nice.

Anna Donovan:

That’s great. There’s lots of spaces here for students who went to group study or solo study. So fun fact and I think you mentioned this subtype, Hannah, but you had a coffee cart before coming here to law school. We are immensely jealous of that. What is your coffee or caffeine order? And also, you can tell me that maybe you don’t drink caffeine.

Hanna Berry:

Yeah. Should I start? Sure. Okay. Yes. I probably fall in that annoying category of coffee snob. But self-admitted, I generally, if I’m going somewhere new, I’d try something new every time. I do make coffee at home every day, and I’m usually a vanilla latte or an Earl Grey latte person, and I make my syrups.

Anna Donovan:

I’m also jealous, and I probably have more time than all of you put together. 

Josh Sulkin:

Josh, do you drink caffeine? I adore caffeine, okay. I actually worked for Starbucks many years ago. But I, I love an iced coffee. I love, like, a cold brew. I prefer, like, alternative milks, but I don’t have to have it flavored, only if I’m being crazy. 

Anna Donovan:

Iced coffee year round? 

Josh Sulkin:

Yes. Okay. Oh, 100%. It could be snowing outside, and I will just keep putting more ice and ice. And I couldn’t be more opposite. But I do love that for you.

Anna Donovan:

Nernemsaa, do you drink caffeine? 

Nernemsaa Golding:

I do. 

Anna Donovan:

Great. What is your poison of choice? 

Nernemsaa Golding:

Just honestly, just a regular drip coffee.Probably the most boring person here. 

Anna Donovan:

No, absolutely. That is. That’s the gamut. And that is so unbelievable. Wonderful. Well, thank you all for joining. I hope I didn’t dip you too far into PTSD, taking you back to applying to law school. Thank you for joining us. And we will see you back here very soon for a new episode.